SIMILAR TO THE S_PACE THE BRAND-NEW F_PACE CAM IS DIRECTLY DERIVED FROM OUR WARP RACING PROGRAM. IT CARRIES THE RACING GENES OF OUR PWA WORLD CHAMPION SAIL WARP_FOIL FOR MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THE HANDLING IS EXCEPTIONALLY EASY FOR THIS CLASS.
Compared to traditional fin sailing you have approximately 70% less drag on the foil. We were the first brand to understand that it requires a totally different sail design (profile, twist pattern, aspect ratio) to match the low-drag hydrofoils. The most important factor for performance foil sails is the balance between control and performance/speed over a maximum wind range combined with effortless handling. Compared to the regular F_PACE the F_PACE CAM features an additional 6th batten and 2 HYPER CAM 2.0 + 2 SLEEVE INDUCERS. In addition the F_PACE CAM is designed around SDM masts. All this leads to a much more performance oriented behavior over a huge wind range. The high aspect outline with reduced top surface corresponds perfectly with the low water resistance of the hydrofoil and the almost non-existent lateral forces. With less movement in the top, the rig remains stable over the board, for maximum control yet very reactive. The foot closes perfectly with the deck and allows for extreme angles against the wind with the extended foot batten – yet thanks to the extremely concave outline without any negative influence to the handling! All sizes are now equipped with an XPly top panel. The slightly more elastic XPly improves control in high winds and keeps the leech stable. Another major improvement to enhance control is the reduced profile at batten 6 which shifts the main power to the center. In our eyes, the F_PACE CAM redefines the benchmark of control : performance : wind-range ratio. And all of this combined with effortless handling and super smooth rotation so that even intermediate riders can choose the F_PACE CAM.
ATTENTION: since the mast geometry and length (= stiffness) depend on the sail design, size and luff curve the sails will NOT work with any masts outside the recommendations!
WHAT'S NEW
VISUAL FACELIFT
TECHNICALLY UNCHANGED
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THIS PRODUCT IS QUALIFIED FOR AN EXTENDED WARRANTY OF 5 YEARS. TO SECURE THE EXTENDED CLAIMS PLEASE REGISTER WITHIN 30 DAYS.
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WIND RANGE VS. SAIL- AND FOIL SIZE
YOUR PERFECT BOARD MATCH
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Recommended setup for F-type
Hi, I was directed by your Instagram team to post this here. I have a few questions as I am trying as best as possible (without access to a test center) to make an informed decision buying a DuoTone F-type sail. I am sure other future buyers will find this post useful too. ==== 1)Which sail would you recommend 5.8 or 6.8, given my setup data and experience below: - my weight 79kg - board: Goya Bolt 127 liter (2020) - foil: Neilpryde Glide Wind (small wing) - experience: windsurfing since 2001 (intermediate level); foiling since July 2019, with about 10 sessions in. I've foiled this season with a North Sails E-type 8.2 (2017), and a Goya Nexus 6.7 (2018). I am not a huge fan of the pumping-to-get-foiling technique; and as a result I prefer to stand, hooked in, wait for an extended gust to get going. The E-type gets me foiling at 10-12 kts. The Nexus at 12-15 kts. Of course if the wind increases both sails are too big while on the foil. At around 15 -20 kts or above I switch to regular (fin)windsurfing. Given the preferred 8-15 kts wind range which F-type size is better? ==== 2) I have a Goya 70% mast, 21 IMCS, 430, and bend curve is bottom = 64% and top = 78%. Can I *for starters* use this mast on the F-type? Or will it totally fail the concept? ==== 3) Between the 2019 and 2020 F-type what are the differences other than color? Appreciating your expert advice!
KNOWLEDGE BASE SAILS
BRAND COMPATIBILITY
At DUOTONE we use a Medium Constant Curve for our masts (our bend percentages range between 61-63 bottom and 75-77 top depending on model and length). As this curve sits right in the middle within Constant Curve masts it offers the biggest compatibility of any bend curve. This makes our masts and sails the most compatible on the market.
HERE IS HOW GOOD OTHER BRAND MASTS WORK WITH OUR SAILS AND VICE VERSA:
Challenger Sails, Ezzy, GA (2017 on), Goya, Gun Sails, KA Sails, Loft Sails, Naish Sails, NeilPryde (RDM masts), RRD, S2Maui, Sailloft, Sailworks, Severne (RDM masts, 2014 on)
>> 80-90% (depending on model and size)
Hot Sails, NeilPryde (SDM masts), Point7, Severne (SDM masts, 2014 on), Simmer Style, Chinook
>> 70-80% (depending on model and size)
Avanti, Gaastra (until 2016), Maui Sails, Severne (until 2013), Vandal
>> Not compatible
Most customers change their individual sail and mast sizes according to demand and therefore end up owning a quiver with different brands. When building up your personal sail quiver, you should try to combine sails that have a similar feel and behavior. The one decisive factor defining how similar or different one sail feels/behaves to another is the position of the draft, in both levels, vertical (high><low) and horizontal (forward><back).
Freeride and slalom sails from the different brands nowadays feel quite similar since at least the horizontal draft position is forward oriented on nearly every sail today.
The biggest difference though you find with wave sails.
Basically there are 2 different kind of wave sails:
Draft centered (= balanced pull on both hands) and low (to keep the sail controllable)
These sails are the ideal companion for multi-fin boards. Since the balanced pull on both hands makes them super neutral in your hands they shine especially in real down the line conditions. On the other hand they feel very different to modern freeride and slalom sails (which are very forward pulling). So if you are using such draft back/low wave sails only very occasionally as your high wind flat water sail you might be better off with the second type of wave sails.
Draft forward and up (to still generate enough low end power)
These sails work on both single- and multi-fin boards. With the forward pulling feeling they are more exiting/direct to sail and have a very similar feeling to modern freeride and slalom sails. In addition they are the ideal choice for side-onshore jumping conditions as the higher and forward oriented draft helps/accelerates rotations in the air (especially forward loops).
So when mixing your quiver with different sails/brands you should try to combine sails which have a similar draft position and thus feeling and behavior.
Just follow these guidelines:
You are looking for a direct feeling wave sail especially for jumping. Or you need a smaller sail to complete your freeride or slalom sails. Try to get draft forward/up wave sails. Typical examples are:
Duotone Super_Star / Duotone Duke / NP Zone / NP Combat (until 2018) / NP Atlas / Point7 Salt / Point7 Spy / Severne S1 / Severne Blade
You are looking for a wave sail which is super neutral for down the line riding and very forgiving in nuking gusty conditions. Try to get draft centered/low wave sails. Typical examples are:
Duotone Super_Hero / GA IQ / GA Manic / Goya Fringe / Goya Banzai / NP Combat (2019 on) / Simmer Tricera / Simmer Blacktip / Simmer Icon
Try to avoid combining draft forward/up- with draft centered/low sails in your quiver as these feel and behave extremely different.
THE MAST - THE MOST UNDERESTIMATED PART OF YOUR RIG
The importance of the mast is usually extremely underrated. In fact, the mast is comparable to the transmission of a car. Or in other words, a Ferrari with only one gear is not very fast, only the correct transmission maximizes the potential of the engine into v-max.
When you compress a mast using downhaul tension every mast has a specific bend curve. This bend curve has to match with the luff curve of your sail in order to work in conjunction with the sail. On the other hand if the mast has a different bend curve than the luff curve both parts work against each other. Therefore it is utmost important to buy the right mast for your sail.
To say it loud and clear: a wrong mast will destroy min. 30% of your sails performance or in other words will turn a winner into a shit sail!
The only other thing you can do to kill your sails performance is wrong/insufficient downhaul tension.
In general, at Duotone, we modify our mast curves just very, very moderately, if at all, from one year to the next. There are 2 reasons for this:
1. we try to keep our masts compatible with our sails for as long as possible to avoid forcing customers to always buy a new mast with their new sail.
2. our sail designer Kai is always trying to reduce the "design variables" as much as possible. This way he can constantly improve the sails performance. And since the mast curves have a tremendous impact on the sail, he is not very eager to change the curves.
Even on our high-performance Platinum mast series, the bend curves are only slightly adjusted from year to year. All other mast series generally remain completely unchanged. This means that as long as you are not a Word Cup pro, you can use 10 year old or even older Duotone masts (or from our previous brand) in our sails.
1. MAST STIFFNESS
Your rig is like a bird's wing, it is not a static but a dynamic object. Everything above your boom is under permanent movement to react/adapt to changing wind conditions (wind strength and direction) as well as to water movement.
There is a simple rule across all masts: the longer the mast the stiffer it is, or rather, the stiffer it must be. This is simply because the larger the sail surface becomes, the more support it needs from the mast. In a way the mast is the backbone of your rig.
What happens if a mast is too stiff or too soft for the sail (size)?
1. mast too stiff: the rig becomes super hard to control (especially when powered up) and uncomfortable (exhausting) to sail as the mast doesn't flex sufficiently e.g. when a gust hits your sail.
2. mast too soft: a mast that is too soft reduces the profile in the sail (because it already bends too much when downhauling the sail). When sailing It also bends too much with every gust. Both factors reduce the performance of your sail.
Your body weight also plays a role here. On the same sail a 60 kg lightweight will want to use a slightly softer mast than a 90 kg heavyweight sailor.
2. MAST DIAMETER (RDM VS. SDM)
There are two diameters existing:
1. SDM (Standard Diameter Mast) with 48,5 mm inside diameter at the bottom
2. RDM (Reduced Diameter Mast) with 32-33 mm inside diameter at the bottom
RDM masts make sense only up to lengths of around 430 cm, as they have a rather soft flex behaviour due to their smaller cross section. Therefore, they are primarily suitable for Wave/Freestyle sails with the additional advantage that they are easier to grip during manoeuvres.
On the other hand, larger, mostly performance-oriented sails require stiffer masts with a “more direct“ flex. This characteristic requires a larger mast cross section in order to achieve the required stiffness.
3. CARBON CONTENT >< WEIGHT >< PRICE >< PERFORMANCE
Compared to glass fiber, carbon is
a much stiffer fiber:
Due to this higher stiffness, less material/wall-thickness is requires, which ultimately results in a much lighter mast. The weight of the mast has an significant influence on how light the whole rig feels in your hands. No joke compared to a 50% carbon mast with a 100% carbon mast your rig will feel as if it would be 1 square meter smaller! And this is something everyone from beginner to World Cup pro will immediately feel and appreciate.
a much faster reacting (responsing) fiber:
When a gust hits your rig it twists off to absorb the sudden energy surge (instead of pulling you into a catapult). In order to create forward movement the mast has to reflex back. The faster this happens the faster the rig is ready for the next gust/impact.
a much more expensive fiber:
Unfortunately carbon fiber is 10-20 times more expensive than glass. That means the higher the carbon content, the more expensive the mast.
DESIGN PHYSICS OF MODERN WINDSURF SAILS
Especially in the top and towards the clew weight is key cause due to the leverage-effect you feel every gram a multiple times in your hands. Because of the quite limited amount of materials available though the only way to reduce the sail weight is by reducing the thickness of the materials. The secret is finding the sweet spot of lowest possible weight but without sacrificing durability and longevity/sustainability.
Modern Windsurf sails consist of the following raw materials:
(1) MAST SLEEVE MATERIAL
Rough woven Polyester fabric. The rough structure gives it a maximum abrasion resistance against impact from the outside (e.g. board contact or contact during rigging) as well as from the inside (through the mast).
(2) MONOFILM
Plastic film made out of Polyester available in clear- or colored versions. This hard plastic film has a very low stretch (for maximum performance) and doesn‘t absorb any water (dry weight = wet weight). Attention: monofilm isn't very UV-resistant. Therefore keep your sail out of direct sun light when not sailing. Also monofilm isn't very abrasion resistant.
(3) XPLY LAMINATE
2 thin layers of monofilm and a pattern of threads (out of Polyester or Dyneema) are glued together creating a sandwich laminate. The additional threads are supposed to function as a rip stop in case the film gets punctured (e.g. falling into the sail with your harness hook first). When using the same total thickness as monofilm (= same low stretch, same UV- and puncture-resistance) XPly is 30% heavier due to the additional adhesive (and threads).
(4) DACRON
Before discovering monofilm original Windsurf sails were made entirely out of Dacron. This woven fabric offers a very good abrasion resistance but is very stretchy plus elongates (means it grows with each use). Therefore nowadays mainly used for reinforcement patches to protect the monofilm and XPly panels in the high abrasion areas of your sail (foot, clew, top and outside of batten pockets).
(5) INSIGNIA
Dacron material with a self-adhesive side. Therefore it doesn‘t require seams when put on top of the film plus prevents water from getting in-between the film and the abrasion patches (= lower wet weight).
Wanna know more details or looking for DUOTONE sail spare parts - here you go
BATTENS
Made out of glass- or carbon fiber either as solid version with smaller diameter (= stronger) or tube version with larger diameter (= stiffer). For a better understanding the mast is like the backbone of your sail whereas the battens act like the ribs of your sail keeping the profile in place. Same as the mast also the battens have individual profiles (thinner tip, thicker tail) matching the profile of the sail.
Simple rule: the more battens the more stable (= faster + bigger wind range) the sail becomes. But also the heavier the sail becomes as battens account for approx. 40% of the sails total weight. Therefore handling/wave-oriented sails usually come with 4-5 battens whereas performance oriented sails usually come with 6-7 battens.
As a second guideline smaller sail sizes require fewer battens than larger sizes.
CAMBERS
Usually there is a certain gap between the batten tip and the mast. This is necessary so that the batten can shift from one side of the mast to the other when sailing back and forth. A camber can be seen as a kind of connection between the batten tip and the mast filling out this gap.
This leads to much better aerodynamics as the cam enables a smooth transition between the thick mast into the thin sail body. In addition since the cam is braced against the mast the batten stabilises the sails profile much more effectively (sail becomes more stable = faster).
The downside is that the rotation from one side to the other becomes much harder. Plus the cambers need a certain space which requires a wider mast sleeve. This makes (water)starting much harder as the wider mast sleeve absorbs more water. Therefore cambers are mainly used on performance Freeride or high-performance Slalom sails.
FOOT ROACH
A sail with a lot of foot roach reduces the gap between the sail and the board (close the gap) which makes it more efficient/performance-oriented.
On the other hand a high cut foot with less foot roach improves the handling especially for all kind of ducking moves.
PROFILE DEPTH
A deeper sail profile gives you more power and performance in general.
A flatter profile on the other hand improves the handling as the distance of the flat profile is much shorter when shifting from one side to the other.
BOOM- AND LUFF LENGTH
Together with the sail size all dimensions increase. Means in general the larger the sail the longer the boom- and luff lengths become.
Simple rule: a heavier sailor needs to take a larger sail size to get planning in the same wind compared to a lightweight.
Rough indication for the biggest sail size: to get going in the same wind a 10 kg heavier guy requires a 1 sqm larger sail.
Max. sail size vs. body weight:
The larger the sail, the heavier and the more “sluggish” the rig becomes. In addition, larger sails require stiffer masts to keep the surface "in shape". A heavy rider provides more "counter-pressure" to the sail area and mast stiffness than a lightweight. That's why the sail tends to pull you out of balance, gets difficult to control during maneuvers and becomes inefficient to pump when it is too large for your body weight.
In relation to your body weight, there is a maximum sail size that should not be exceeded.
Here are some guidelines:
>> 9.0+: min. body weight 95kg
>> 8.0-8.3: min. body weight 80kg
>> 7.0-7.3: min. body weight 70kg
As a general rule rather use a slightly too small than a too big sail.
First you should define the biggest and smallest sail size you will need to cover all wind speeds you wanna sail in. This mainly depends on your body weight (see above).
Let’s take an “average” 75 kg sailor and let’s assume this guy wants to sail in “any kind” of wind.
- The biggest sail size this guy would need is something like a 7.3. With a capable 100-120 litre Freeride board this size would get him planning in approx. 8-10 knots.
- His smallest size would then be a 3.7. On a 70-80 litre (Free)Wave board our guy should be fine up to approx. 40-45 knots.
Second thing is to define the sizes in-between. Important to know: the wind pressure (which you feel in your hands) raises in square in relation to the wind speed. Therefore the smaller the sail size the smaller the size increments need to become. For large sails, the gap can be up to 1.5 sqm, while for very small sails it can go down to 0.3 sqm.
Taking all of this into account a typical quiver for our 75 kg guy could look as following:
7.3 - 6.0 - 5.3 - 4.7 - 4.2 - 3.7
Taking the “10 kg = 1 sqm” rule (see previous point) in consideration a typical quiver for an 85 kg guy could then be:
8.3 - 7.0 - 6.0 - 5-0 - 4.5 - 4.0
You have bought all parts from the same brand but if you rig according to the specs printed on the sail it still feels somehow ackward.
Unfortunately every product has tolerances in production. And the bigger a product becomes the bigger the tolerances become. Therefore tolerances on a smartphone are hardly visible whereas tolerances on Windsurf equipment are non-deniable.
- The tolerances on the mast length are approx. +-5 mm.
- The tolerances on mast extensions and booms are approx. +-3 mm.
Furthermore, there is unfortunately still no standard among brands on how to measure the length of booms and extensions.
- On a sail with all its panels the tolerances over the whole luff length can add up to another +-5-10 mm.
In addition, even with monofilm sails the luff stretches in the first 3 times you use the sail due to the massive downhaul tension.
Adding up all these tolerances you start realising why the absolute numbers printed on your sail (especially the luff length) can only be an indication to adjust your mast extension- and boom lengths.
To achieve the correct downhaul tension please make sure to only rely on the VTS (Visual Trim System) markers in the top of every DUOTONE sail.
Always keep in mind there are exactly 2 things either of them potentially killing at least 30% of your sails performance:
1. The wrong mast (see first point under MAST BASICS on every mast page)
2. Wrong/insufficient downhaul tension
There are 2 things which will destroy up to 60% of your sails' performance:
1. A wrong mast with a bend-curve which doesn't match with the luff curve of your sail
2. A wrong timmed sail
For how to rig and fine-tune your sail please see our YouTube channel.
Always rig according to the rigging instructions - see here.
After use in salt water, rinse or spray down with fresh water. At the very least at the end of a vacation or trip.
When possible only roll up the sail once it has dried. Never store a rolled up sail for any extended periods of time unless it is dry.
To dry, release the tension from the sail; if possible do not set out to dry in direct sunlight, and do not dry it by letting it flutter in the wind.
Always roll the sail from top or bottom, keeping all battens under full tension in their sleeves!
Use only recommended mast components for your sail in order to attain optimum performance.
Do not wash your sail with harsh detergents or chemicals. Water and a mild soap are fine.
Repair tears and holes in monofilm sails immediately to prevent further tearing. If proper repair is impossible (and this includes using the DUOTONE monofilm repair kit), at least seal the tear with normal tape or a sticker.
The sails durability is directly related to
a. the frequency of use
b. sail care and
c. UV-radiation (especially in monofilm sails)
In places with high UV-radiation, store the sail in the shade, otherwise de-rig it.
DUOTONE DESIGN PHILOSOPHIES - THINK DIFFERENT
With the information overkill nowadays no one has the time to read manuals anymore. Therefore we try hard to design our products as intuitive as possilbe to get you onto the water faster than with any other product. No wonder DUOTONE is called the feature world champ.
Here are some examples:
VTS 2.0
The first "guess-free" visual trimming guide to clearly show the correct downhaul tension. Version 2.0 comes with a window in the protector to mark your individual trim once you have found your ideal setting.
HTS 2.0
By marking the draft position on the sail you immediately know where to position your harness lines.
INDIVIDUAL BOOM LENGTH INDICATION
The length of the boom changes with the angle to the mast. Therefore if you move your boom up or down you need to change the length of your boom. As the only brand we take that in consideration by printing 3 different boom lengths onto the clew and boom cutout so that you always know the correct length according to your body/boom height.
SET&GO VARIO-TOP
Instead of leaving you with the time-consuming try and error procedure to find the correct setting we have installed markings on the webbing immediately showing the correct setting.
iROCKET 2.0
Every batten in a sail requires a different tension. That's why as the only brand we calibrate every single batten at the factory to the correct individual tension using a torque wrench. Since the screws are locked with screw glue you never have to touch them. Just rest asured to always have prefect batten tensions.
Our motto is clear: light is right but only if it doesn't go to costs of durability.
Our hardware products (booms, masts and extensions) are proven to be the lightest in the industry.
With our sails though we are not the lightest on the market (with the exception of the Super Hero M.Plus). The major reason for this is that we are using (much) thicker XPly laminates than some other brands.
The factors of puncture resistance, UV weathering resistance and stretch evidently depend ONLY on the thickness of the film used.
Puncture resistance and stretch have a linear relation to the thickness of the film. Means twice the thickness results in twice the strength against punctures with half the stretch.
Even more critical is UV resistance since here the relation to the thickness is overproportional. Means half the thickness reduces the UV-longevity by nearly 70%!
Some brands use XPly laminates which are 2/3rd thinner than ours in the upper sail area. Yes in the top you have less puncture issues and you can even get away with the increased strech. Unfortunately though the UV-exposure is the same all over the entire sail.
That's one of the reasons why the majority of Windsurf centres around the globe trust in DUOTONE products.
Eliminating stretch and loss of tension. If it’s good enough for safety belts, it’s good enough for windsurfers! We are the only manufacturer to use only polyester webbing for the (vario) top and the tack roller. This advantage of this compared to conventional polypropylene is the negligible amount of stretch. As a result even brand new sails will retain full luff tension and will not need subsequent trimming.
On modern wave sails you want to have a certain elasticity. The easiest way to „inject“ elasticity into a sail is by using Dacron for the luff panel.
Dacron has 2 disadvantages though:
Dacron is a rather soft woven fabric. Therefore it has a lot of give but similar to your t-shirt it wears out over time. Means your sail is permanently getting fuller in the luff panel. Especially under permanent downhaul tension (e.g. in surf centres) Dacron ages very fast.
The Dacron material improves the elasticity but due to the soft Dacron material it’s kind of a spongy softness. On the water such sails often have the tendency to become unbalanced on the wave and less precise during jumping.
Therefore Kai designs his wave sails with non-stretchy XPly luff panels. Instead he tries to implement elasticity into the sail through other design features. Starting with 2022 all no-cam sails feature a mast sleeve made out of one single piece (ONE PIECE SLEEVE) instead of the common two piece construction. Besides saving weight this eliminates the hard spot at the leading edge caused by the overlapping + reinforcement and the seam to connect the two pieces. This way the whole sleeve becomes an integral part of the mast flex/twist. We call this PRECISE ELASTICITY.
WE DO CARE
Sustainability is the most important and pressing challenge of todays mankind to secure a livable mother earth for future generations to come!
Over the last 50 years Windsurfing has developed into a super high tech sport. But let's face it despite what others might tell you with the exception of aluminium booms and extensions Windsurfing products are a "mixture of petrol-based plastic trash". And most times up to 100% of this plastic trash are non-recycled (means "freshly produced") plastics.
At least as of today there are no eco-friendly substitutes existing offering the minimum requirements necessary to design modern Windsurfing products. Or why do you think no one wants to sail with wooden booms, aluminium masts or stretchy sails made of woven fabrics anymore?
There is only one sustainable way out of this dilemma:
MAKING LONGER LASTING PRODUCTS (LONGEVITY = SUSTAINABILITY)
A high performance product that lasts longer and best case can even be put into additional use on the second hand market is the best and only way to conserve the resources of our earth.
Of course light components have a massive impact on the performance and handling of your rig. That's why light weight is always on our briefing list when designing and engineering new products. And DUOTONE products are among or in many cases are the lightest on the market.
But durability and longevity were and will ALWAYS be on top of our priority list. Our industry leading warranty extensions bear witness to this philosophy:
- 2 year unconditional warranty on almost every hardware product (masts, booms and extensions+bases).
- 5 year warranty on 80% of our sails.
On sails we cannot emphasize enough that especially reducing the thickness of the monofilm and the XPly laminate has a radical influence on the longevity/sustainability. Reducing the film thickness by 50% reduces the UV-stability by 70%. Just to shortterm impress magazine testers or customers some brands use up to 70% thinner laminates/films than we do. This is not our understanding of sustainability.
DOING MORE
However, since we are fully aware of the importance of sustainability, we cannot simply stop here.
>> Only we have stopped using any plastic for packaging our sails. This saves approx. 5 sqm of plastic film and foam per sail.
>> Only our aluminium products (booms and extensions+bases) are manufactured in a CO2 neutral production facility.
>> Only our aluminium products (booms and extensions+bases) are produced in Germany using 100% European raw materials in order to keep shipping distances (to our manufacture and then to our central warehouse) at a minimum.
>> Only our sail bags are made out of 100% recycled plastic.
>> Only we compensate all carbon emissions caused by our sails during manufacture and transport by supporting a hydropower carbon offset project in Sri Lanka, the country where our sails are produced.
WE DO LISTEN - BECOME PART OF THE DUOTONE DEVELOPMENT
DO YOU HAVE ANY INPUT OR IDEAS ON HOW TO IMPROVE OUR PRODUCTS?
SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS WITH US!
We strive to create products that are superior in performance and function to anything else on the market. Therefore, we are not just interested in the opinion and experience of professional riders, but listen to ALL windsurfers out there. Because we know we can learn from everyone, we want to collect the opinions of windsurfers worldwide.
This project runs throughout the whole year. Every year on January 15th, the best ideas will be rewarded and might actually be implemented into future products.
So, you have got an idea? Contact us >HERE< and take your chance to make a difference. (Please use "R&D input for DTW" as a subject line)
REWARDS
1st - One sail (free of choice)
2nd - One Silver Boom (free of choice)
3rd - One Power.XT 2.0 (free of choice)
Any comments or questions? Here you’ll find first hand R&D / rider Information.
The more info you provide, the more specific the advice/help will be. Please let us know:
Your skill level
Your body weight and size
Mast(s) you plan on using with the sail
Board(s) you are using
Conditions/spots you are sailing at
Please note: To help as many people as possible follow the thread, the forum language is English only.
17 comment(s)
Hi Duotone Team, I have a 1-year old F Pace Cam 7.0 which I really like a lot. Unfortunately, after my last foiling session, I saw that the batten which is located at the lower camber broke (near the camber). Don't know how it happened, Sail is just a year old. My shop told me, that you do not accept this as a problem of guarantee, which I do not really understand, because I handled the sail always with care. To get the broken batten out I also needed to open the screws at the tab of the Hyper Cam 2.0, They also broke, although I used very low force with the screwdriver. Anyhow, beside wondering on your guarantee, I bought now the spare parts from my shop in order to get the sail working again. They arrived, but I am still puzzled how to replace the broken batten. The tube replacement batten (190cm) is longer than the original, also the white part of the tail part is longer than the original. The Tip C Tube Repl. Batten on the other side is shorter than the original. So overall it is for sure possible to saw the parts at the right places so that someone can build a replacement batten with the correct length. But my first problem is, because the old one is broken, I do not know the correct length / have no reference. Can you please tell me the right length? It is the batten were the lower Hypercam is sitting – batten no 5 - counted from the top (using your way to number the battens). Furthermore, I assume I need to glue the different parts together, but there is no glue included in the spare parts. What glue are you using / recommending? If there is a manual or some tips and tricks on how to do the replacement that would be also very helpful… Hope you can provide me with the necessary info. I will wait, I do not won’t to do something wrong with the replacement parts…looking forward to your answer.
ReplyI am the happy owner of F pace cam 7.0. Nevertheless sometimes i sail in 20+ knots conditions and despite of using smaller front wing (650 cm2) i have too much power in the sail. As my birthday is coming soon i just ordered f -pace 5.6. The one issue i see now is that recommended mast is 400 SDM ... the size i do not have :(. Any ideas how the sail could perform with SDM duotone mast 430 gold ? In "Sizes and Specs" section one can see in "MAST TYPE (BEST/ALT.)" row "PLATINUM / GOLD>SILVER" ? But seem duotone does not offer Gold/Silver SDM 400 masts ? Is it a bug here ?
ReplyHi Antonio,Uff that's a tough one. I would love to tell you "hey no problem that will still work somehow". Unfortunately the truth is that the sail will not work at all on these masts. I know this is not the answer you were looking for. But we prefer to be as honest as possible with our customers. Rather than a short sales success we prefer to have happy longterm customers. And the right mast is absolutely essential and decides if the sails performs well or really bad. And in the case of the F_Pace Cam 4.2 it would not work at all since the cambers won't rotate properly on a 400 mast. Plus this sail has no vario top - means a 400 mast would simply be too long.
ReplyClear - many thanks Raoul ! (and you can delete the other duplicate message as i thought the first did not go through!)
ReplyHi Raoul, I purchased last year my fourth Duotone sail for foil, the 4.2 F_Pace Cam for those very windy days, but I have been unable to use it yet as it requires an SDM mast, and all my masts are RDM. Would either of these two mast be decently ok for this sail: (i) North Sail SDM 400cm 75% Carbon, or (ii) Tushingham 400cm 45% carbon. I don't mind the extra weight vs full carbon, but was wondering if the shape/flex is suitable for this sail as I have not used a cam sail before. Unfortunately these are the only two options i can easily source... Will use it with a Stingray LTD 125lt, 500cm front wing and for those days with 25+ kt of wind plus stronger guts. My next sail up is a 5.2 F_Pace no cam which i use with a black.50 RDM 430cm mast (and the second question is if could use either of these SDM masts i mentioned above with the 5.2 that requires RDM...). Thanks in advance!
ReplyHeyI have made more than 450 km with my brand new f-pace cam 7.0 and i love it. I am using it with a very basic board: Tabou Air Ride 81 board (145L volume, 81 cm wide), carbon foil (front wings: 900/800 and have tried 650 a few times ). I find the sail definitely more stable and powerful than my f-pace no-cam 6.4. Everything works great till 20 knots but there are times when we have 20 + knots (with 30+ kn gusts). I am a little bit jealous observing wing-foilers with 2.8/3.5 wings having a lot of fun on a water while other ppl can just observe and drink beers on a beach...In these strong wind conditions f-pace cam 7.0 is definitely too big (even with 650 front wing) and I have tried foiling with my friend's 2020 severne foilglide 5.0 (2 cambers). It was easier but still surviving-like conditions - I had to sail with a half-open sail which results in a very limited control. It wasn't so much problem of a too-much lift ( i used rear-wing shim to reduce lift power) but I had an impression (especially in gusts) like the wind wants to push me out of the board (to leeward rail) - a very similar feeling of being "overpowered" in windsurfing. Given i have never sailed before (on a foil) in such a strong wind i am looking for someone to help select proper equipment to use in these 20+ (with 30+ gusts) knots conditions:- which sail would you recommend to use ? - do i somehow need to use smaller(more narrow board) and/or use smaller than 650 front wing in such conditions or these can stay as they are and i just need to find smaller size? - can someone compare severne foilglide 2020 5.0 with duotone f-pace cam or f-pace no cam ?I see a section "GUIDELINES FOR BUILDING UP YOUR PERSONAL SAIL QUIVER" section in f-pace cam/f-pace no-cam but it looks to me these information has been just copied from fin-sails and are not fully correct for windfoil sailsthx a lot in advance
ReplyHi Jakub,Happy to hear that you love our F-Pace cam 7.0! Sounds like for the board and wings that you have a sail with 2 cam is definitely more fitted than a no-cam, that why I think you prefer the 7.0 F-pace cam over your 6.4 without cam. So to answer your questions: - Which sail recommend to use? F-Pace Cam in any size. Without cams I recommend with bigger front wings to simply cruise, you have smaller front wings for more speed which fit the F-pace cam better. - A smaller board, sail AND front wing will of course give you more control in higher winds. But I think you can easily gain more control with a 4.9 F-pace Cam. Play a bit with the backwing angle, mastbase and simply some hours in 30 knots of wind, because no matter the set-up, foiling in such a strong wind will always be hectic! - As the foilglide you tried is has 2 cams as well, I'd say you can compare it best to the F-Pace cam.Hope my advice is usefull and I'd be happy to help you further if needed :-)
ReplyHi JordyThx a lot for your answers. Do you by any chance know how one can compare this older (2020) foilglide with duotone f-pace cam regarding sizing, ie 2 sails with same sizes, same purpose (wave/foil/freeride), same features (no cambers or the same amount of cambers) but of different brands can have different power ? I am simply afraid that duotone f-pace cam 4.9 you did recommend to me would be more-less the same as foilglide 5.0 regarding its wind-range/power....Does duotone plan to have "GUIDELINES FOR BUILDING UP YOUR PERSONAL SAIL QUIVER" for windfoil sails ?
ReplyHi Jakub,Yes the plan is to have a 'GUIDELINES FOR BUILDING UP YOUR PERSONAL SAIL QUIVER" for windfoil sails as well, we're currently working on it!It's true that the 4.9 could be similar in power as the foilglide 5.0, so in that case it would be better to take the 4.2, the smallest we have. Of course we don't know all products of other brands to give you an advise based on our own experiences, but looking at that sail having 2 cams as well it would make sense the 4.9 and 5.0 are similar in power.
ReplyGreat, thx for answer. Is it a matter of days/weeks or months of releasing 'GUIDELINES FOR BUILDING UP YOUR PERSONAL SAIL QUIVER" for windfoil ? As i am truly happy with f pace cam 7.0 i am looking to buy another (smaller) windfoil sails for bigger wind. I was thinking of 4.2/4.9 but i am a little bit afraid the gap between 4.x and 7.0 is too big... WDYT? Would make sense to have 5.6 in between ? Just looking into "sizes and specs" section i see that 5.6 has max luff 434 but the recommended mast is 400 - is it intended ? If, yes what would be the consequences of rigging 5.6 on 430 mast (TBH i have no 400 SDM mast) ? thx in advance
ReplyDear JakubAs you have a Lightwind Sail using the 7.0m2....your next size can be something around 5m2.5,6m2 is to close to the 7.0m2Best RegardsDani
ReplyHeyAs i fixed my duotone 7.0 f-pace cam with. a new camber tab i had a chance to have it in action today. We had like 12-15 knots and it was simply amazing. I like it really much.As i am still learning the sail i have some concern regarding rigging it, more precisely downhaul setting. One can read that 7.0 shall be used with 460 SDM + max 30 cm extension. I have SDM duotone mast 460 gold from 2020 , use power xt 2.0. and with 30 cm extension i reached the limit of my downhaul setting (TACK.FITTING touches mast foot and can not make any click more ) but loose leach is just over "min" indicator on a sail. Please have a look at pictures... https://uploads.disquscdn.c... https://uploads.disquscdn.c... Does it look fine ? Does it mean if i wanna set it to "max" (more windy conditions) i shall set extension to 32 cm ?
ReplyHi Jakub,Thanks a lot for the positive feedback. On the pix I cannot verify if the top is laying on the ground (as should be) or is lifted up. Cause lifted up there is less of a wrinkle.
ReplyTo be honest i do not remember so i took new pictures...top of the sail lying on a ground: https://uploads.disquscdn.c... top of the sail lying on a bottle : https://uploads.disquscdn.c... i stepped on a bottom of a mast: https://uploads.disquscdn.c...I put max of downhaul with extension 30 cm (can not make a single click more on power xt)What do you think ?
ReplyHi Jakub,Actually I think it’s looking pretty good.You must not forget that foil sails have lees loose leech which makes it a bit harder to spot the borderline between lose and tight area.But feel free to give it a go and set your extension to 32cm, put 1-2 clicks more downhaul and see if it feel better for you.
ReplyHey,I am fully aware of less loose leech in foil sales which makes spotting borderline harder (in f pace cam it is much easier comparing to f-pace no-cam).My only concern was that with all other duotone sails i own (s-pace, e-pace) when i follow specification printed on a sail and set extension to max length, i can set downhaul to max indicator on a sail and still there is a buffer for at least a few clicks so i could easily increase downhaul and go beyond max indicator on a sail. It is definitely not the case with f-pace cam and it makes me a little bit puzzled... Next time when wind picks up I ll try with 32 to increase downhaul to max indicator on a sail.Thx for a help
ReplyHeyI just used F pace cam 7.0 for the first time. Before i used f-pace no cam 6.4 and one can feel the difference.... F-pace cam is heavier than no-cam version but is more stable and more powerful... So far so good but after the session I noticed a really big and bad looking wrinkle going vertically through the sail. It is centered at above-boom-camber batten. As it 's been pretty cold when i finished my foiling i decided not to take out the batten but according to me (and my peer) the batten seems to be absolutely fine, ie it is not broken. Can anyone from duotone help me to diagnose what is the problem? It looks as if the additional material that was sewn onto the batten pocket was sewn on incorrectly...I am attaching pictures to visualize how it looks:https://uploads.disquscdn.c... https://uploads.disquscdn.c...I am open to take more pictures if necessary. Thx in advance for a help
ReplyHi Jakub,Happy to hear you like your new sail.The wrinkle at the batten pocket is a clear sign of insufficient batten tension. Yes all battens are supposed to be tensioned at the factory. I assume this was not the case here and your sail has slipped through the QC. I recon to re-tension the batten according to the rigging instruction - see here on page 6: https://a.storyblok.com/f/1...Sorry for the inconvenience.
ReplyThx a lot. I will try to adjust batten tension tomorrow and let you know. It has happened to me for this time ... Just for curiosity: i bought f pace cam as a brand new product. Before taking it to a water for the first time i double checked everything - did camber test as you show on your duotone youtube videos and everything looked perfect when i rigged it up on a ground. Is it normal that this "insufficient batten tension" problem has shown up ONLY after me foiling for the first time, ie after the sail got "some more " wind on a water ?
ReplyHi Jakub,So you mean that there were no winkles before using the sail but only after you have used the sail - correct?
ReplyExactly. Everything looked perfect when i rigged the sail on a ground. I saw the wrinkle for the very first time on my returning back to a beach. It is so big so it is impossible to miss it...
ReplyHi Jakub,Ok that explains it all now. So the batten was tensioned at the factory but they have „just“ forgotten to put screw glue onto the screw. If this is the case the batten tension gets loose due to the constant vibration in the sail while sailing. Fortunately there is a very easy fix to this: completely unscrew the batten tensioner and take out the screw. Now put some Loctite 248 glue onto the screw and put it back in. Finally tension the batten according to the rigging instructions and wait over night before using the sail.Once again sorry for the inconvenience.
ReplyHmm,Ok let me try... So to fully understand: this batten tensioner (this black tube with small wings on sides) has a screw and this screw shall be glued to a batten (bar), right ? If i put this Loctite 248 shall i put it on a screw thread like https://uploads.disquscdn.c... or shall it just put it on the end of a screw ? Does batten (bar) has a slot the batten tensioner screw enters ? Sorry for (maybe stupid) questions but have never done it before...
ReplyHi Jakub,You got it quite right. There is a nut installed in the black plastic batten tensioner body (the part with the wings). So just remove the screw and put some Loctite onto it (like shown in your pic) and screw it back in. Since the glue takes a while to cure you have plenty of time to apply the correct tension.PS: remember there are no stupid questions just stupid answers :-)
ReplyRaoul,I took out black plastic batten tensioner of this "with wrinkle" batten". For the sake of curiosity and learning by example i also took out plastic batten tensioner from other batten (the top one) - I was expecting to see the something extraordinary like tracks of glue on its screw but simply nothing... https://uploads.disquscdn.c...Is this Loctite 248 a true glue or just something that prevents screws from unscrewing because of constant vibration ?
ReplyHi Jakub,Ok now it's getting technical. Usually it's not necessary to touch the batten tensioners.The glue we use is a blue-type Loctite. Means it's a removable medium strength screw glue. This way you can still operate the tensioner (e.g. in case a batten breaks). But it prevents the screw from coming loose while sailing. On the pix to me it looks like there is still a bit glue there but just not enough.
ReplyOk. I managed to only get Sealtite 970 (being High Strength Threadlocker) for a local seller - i am on a camping in eastern Spain and it is a little bit like middle of nowhere... Before applying it i tried to increase the batten tension and observing if wrinkle is gone or not... To my greatest surprise, even with a batten tension screw being maximally screwed in, the wrinkle is still there. It also made me think why with batten tension plastic out, the batten is really, really deep in a batten pocket (like 5 cm). With a screw fully screwed in it sits very deep in a plastic. Have a look at a picture. https://uploads.disquscdn.c...I thought that maybe somehow batten is broken (but how? after 1 session without a single fall !). And i think i finally found what is the problem....It is hard to believe that you guys have put too short batten... I looked at the camber part and i found that the end of the "wrinkle" batten has entered the camber! (look at pic) https://uploads.disquscdn.c... I checked the other camber and it looks definitely different. (look at pic) https://uploads.disquscdn.c...How is batten connected to a camber ? Are they simply glued together ? If yes, than "wrinkle" batten is not glued to camber and no matter how much tension i apply it will always be loose as it just enters camber interior.If my findings are correct i would like to know what shall i do next ? It is a brand new sail, i bought it from "official" shop in Holland.... I would love to send it back (and have duotone or the shop pay for shipment from Spain to Holland) and a get a new one as it seems to me it is the production error.
ReplyHi Jakub,Sorry to hear about your ongoing issues here.Is there a Duotone dealer around at the place where you are at the moment who could have a closer look at your sail?If not I would suggest you keep on using the sail (as apart from the wrinkle the sail seamed to be working fine according to your feedback). Once you’re back home return it to your dealer so that he can check.Hope this worked out for you.
ReplyHeyAccording to https://www.duotonesports.c... the closest ones are in Santa Pola (BE WATERSPORTS) and Elche (GOYTERLOOP). I need to double check if they are open as a lot of businesses here are closed in winter...Given that one/both of the are open, what shall i do ? Can i just enter there and just say: " I am from Raoul Joa, can you please take a look at my sail (and confirm my findings), although i bought the sail in Netherlands ?" Regarding keeping the sail and returning it in March (when i am back): i am simply afraid the NL dealer will complain that i shall return it/raise the issue as soon as I noticed it not a few months after and now it is too late... I did register at duotone for extra warranty but not sure how it would work given i would raise the issue a few months after i found out the issue. Beside wrinkled monofilm tends to break... probably not in a week or a month, but in a year or two...
ReplyI marked on a picture what it means that batten enters the camber interiorhttps://uploads.disquscdn.c...And here everything is fine: https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
ReplyHi Jakub,Quite hard to see on the pix but it might be that the camber tab (= white plastic part you can see in the pic where the front of the batten ends) is broken. You could actually remove the camber from the tab with a short jerk to check that. If this would be the case we could send you a new tab. Exchanging the tab is quite easy as it is connected to the sail body with 2 screws.
ReplyHeyI took out camber (which was pretty easy) to confirm out findings - camber tab is broken. See a pic https://uploads.disquscdn.c...How can it be that it got broken during 1.5 h low-moderate wind session (without a single fall into water) ? How/Where can i get a replacement ? I am trying to contact the seller but without success till now.
ReplyRaoul, Another thing came to my mind. As camber tab got broken, what about batten itself. It could also got broken or damaged... I took pictures of a batten - the end where it enters camber and it is total length. Can you please take a look and try to confirm if batten is fine or not. It looks fine to me... https://uploads.disquscdn.c... https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
ReplyHi Jakub,Thanks for the additional pix. I can confirm that the batten looks perfectly fine.How could the tab break? Well it a injection moulded plastic part and sometimes it can happen that a bubble occurs during the injection moulding process. These parts are made in Wurope but even that doesn’t guarantee that there won’t happen any failures. If you can provide us with your postal address at your holiday location in Spain we make sure to send you a new tab free of charge asap.
ReplyHeyI already ordered it from https://www.boardsandmore.c... . My order number is 12208 . If you can make it shipped ASAP i would be really thankful... In scope of my order i bought a few other articles (which are not urgent for me) but Tab for Hyper Cam 2.0 is the one i need ASAP
ReplyHi Jakub,I will inform our customer service. You have ordered size E, right? Just to double-check that you have ordered the correct size.
ReplyYes. Size E. I wanted also to add type G (as an extra spare for a low camber) but it wasn't available...
ReplyGreat I’ve asked the customer service to send it out via express.
ReplyYesterday, camber tab arrived. Thx a lot for a fast shipping. I already have mounted it and now wait for a wind. Thx again Raoul for a help and support
ReplyHi Jakub,Thanks for the positive feedback. Really happy to hear that we could solve the problem in the end. Once again sorry for the inconvenience. And now enjoy your holidays.
ReplyHelloI’m looking to get a fpace cam 7.8 shortly and am reviewing the specs. It appears the mast length is longer than a 460 and xtr combined. Could a platinum 490 be used instead please?Appreciate your thoughtsThanksNick
ReplyHey nickYes the 490 works too, I even prefer the 490 when the conditions are super light because with the 490 you have a bit more depth in the sail which supports you to get earlier on the foil but the sail feels a bit stiffer compare with the 460. The sail feels a bit more comfortable with the 460 specially in stronger winds.So both masts are working great in the 7.8.ThanksMarco
ReplyThanks marko. That’s very helpfulCheers
ReplyHeyI am a happy user of f-pace (no-cam) 6.4. Till now I've been using it with a really big foil: NP Foil glide 1300 cm2 front wing (low aspect) and the whole set works as a charm.I am able to fly with like 9 knots. Nevertheless when i have more than 17+ knots i start experiencing survivor conditions. Even with 12+ knots wind 1300 cm2 foil is extremely slow. It made its job as it was really easy to handle but now i wanna something more robust and faster.I have just bought new (but used) foil, sth like starboard formula evolution and have 3 front wings: 900 cm2, 800 cm2 and 650 cm2I have tried it only once with 800 cm2 front wind and it is definitely harder to lift it up and start flying comparing to my old 1300 cm2... As my new foil is definitely more race-oriented i am just wondering if you have any experience combining race-oriented foils with f-pace no-cam sails, or shall i go with f-pace cam ? Given i have 80 kg and very stable flights on 1300 cm2 could you recommend me how to build a reasonable foil sails quiver for my new foil (900 cm2, 800 cm2 and 650 cm2 front wings) ? thx a lot in advance.
ReplyHey jakub!Welcome.You are already in the right direction!The F pace cam will be the best option for you.First of all , the sail will support you to get earlier on the foil also with your small front wings because of more depth in the front of the sail.Question is now, do you want to keep your current f pace 6.4 and add an f pace cam or exchange it with an f pace cam.And in which wind conditions do you want to foil.ThanksMarco
ReplyI am driving to Spain, Mar Menor in 2 weeks and i would like to spend as much as possible foiling. I can expect from 8 knots up to 30 knots in winter there - but more often on lower end . I have both 6.4 and (not unpacked yet) 7.4 no-cam f pace but after my first (and last till now) attempt on 6.4 i see it I had much less lift power on 800 comparing to my old 1300 with 6.4.I am just wondering if i shall think of exchanging one/both of my f-paces no cam to f-pace cam ? Will relatively free race foil, work nicely with f-pace no cam or I shall definitely go for f-pace cam? If i decide on f-pace cam, which size shall i pick (beside my 6.4/7.4 f-pace no-cam I am planning to take s-pace 7.8, e-pace 6.2, e-pace 5.4) ?
ReplyHey jakubI am using the 7.8 f pace cam for super light conditions and then I jump down to 6.3 f pace cam. I guess you need a third size too if you wanna cover everything from 8-30 kts. Are you windsurfing on fin too or mainly foiling?ThanksMarco
ReplyI go with fin as well. I have a freerace board but with my skills and equipment i need at least 10+ kn to start planning on my s-pace 7.8. 2 years ago i tried with a foil and my first attempts were failure: had pretty small foil and tried to use s-pace 7.8 which is really hard to pump (at least for me). After purchasing NP windsurf glide with 1300 and 1700 cm2 foil and f-pace no-cam 6.4 foiling became a true joy for me. I could fly with 9+ knots without any hassle. The setup of NP 1300 foil + f-pace 6.4 comes with 2 flaws:- being very slow (my maximum speed record is 33 km/hour)- given we have more than 17+ knots i am entering survivor conditions - can not even put my rear leg into footstrap as i immediately fly to a moon :)Effectively i would like to foil in 9-20+ knots ideally on my starboard foil... so just wondering if it is a matter of:- sail being too small or too flat comparing to f-pace no cam, - skills deficiencies,- flying with 900 front wing in 9 knots is only reserved for pros with bigger sails...BTW: i also have a pretty basic(freeride) tabou board airride 81
ReplyHey jakubThe sail needs to have some depth in the front, because if the sail is too flat then it generates more backhand which is super difficult to handle on the foil.I would recommend you to keep the 6.4 f pace , add a 5.6 f pace cam, which you can use from 20kts and more.Thanks Marco
ReplyHeyThx a lot for an answer. I have a last q: Do you believe i can still fly with 6.4 f-pace no cam on 9-10 kn wind with front wing 900 or it is simply impossible for amateur ?
ReplyHey jakubYes it’s possible.You give your foil a bit more rake to get more lift.Make sure that you will use your min downhaul setting to have more profile in the front and less sail twist.Use less outhaul tension: sail should touch the boom while sailing.Those tips will support you to be able to fly in less then 10ths.Marco
ReplyHello Raul,I am a happy user of Falcon Foil 170 board and F-Pace Cam 6.3 sail. I am using Phantom X foil with mostly 730 and 550 front wings.For strong winds I am using E-Pace 5.4 HD sail that is not a best choice due to its behaviour and being spongy. It would be ideal to buy a 5.6 F-Pace Cam and still being able to use my Gold SDM 430 mast, but according to the spec I need to use 400 cm mast that I don't have yet and frankly never planned to buy as having 430 and 460 masts is fully satisfying my needs. Duotone always stated that 2 masts should work for all our needs ;-)Would 430 work for 5.6 F-Pace Cam? Spec says that mast sleeve is 434 that is on margin.Will appreciate your validation for it. Thank you,Alex
ReplyHi Alexander,Welcome to the thread.The F_Pace Cam is a high performance cam sail. As such it is even more sensitive to the correct mast. Therefore unfortunately it will not work with a SDM 430 mast. We always prefer a honest answer/assistance rather than telling you that „it’s gonna be wonderful“. Cause we always aim to have happy longterm customers rather than a fast (one time) sales success.Please let me know in case you need any further assistance.
ReplyDear Raul,Here's yet another question about advice between the F_PACE Cam or the Warp Foil. Now I foil with the E_Pace for a year and I want to switch to more stable sail. Foiling go's well and stable, jibes are getting better and go without touching the water with the board.Material:Starboard Freeride 150 from 2022 (Fanantic Foil TE 170 or 180 this summer)Starboard Foilmast C600EVO 650, 880 and 1000 Frond Wings from 2022E_PACE from 2022/2023 sail sizes 5.4, 6.2 and 7.8 and I use these from 11 knots to 28 knotsDuotone Platinum mast 4.30, 4.60 and 4.90 from 2021Boom Platinum SLS 190-250 and 140-180I foil in many gusts so I am regularly overpowered so I am looking for sail that can stabilize this well because we often foil far from the coastline (large lake Grevelingen and at sea, The Netherlands). When I ask for advice, they advise both sails, so I cannot make a choice. My weight is 88 Kg and I am 1.90 meters tall.Hopefully you can give the decisive advice
ReplyHi Nathan,Welcome to the thread. Correct me if I’m wrong but apparently you’re coming from fin sailing to now being a foil sailor. So Warp_Foil vs. F_Pace Cam is very similar to Warp_Fin vs. S_Pace. Means if you have the skill level you you’ll get a noticeable better high end control (= v-max) from the Warp_Foil. But this comes at a cost since the Warp_Foil is more exhausting to sail since it’s heavier and requires a more active jibing style. Not to mention once the sleeve is fully filled up with water…The F_Pace Cam in comparison is much easier to sail yet still much more stable than your current E_Pace. If you wouldn’t have stated that you plan to buy a Falcon Foil I would have immediately suggested the F_Pace. But I simply cannot estimate your competition ambitions. Cause on the race course you need both the Falcon Foil and the Warp_Foil. The hardest part though will be to get your hands on the Warp_Foil 20.23 since we are sold out already. Please let me know in case you need any further assistance.
ReplyHey Raoul,Thanks for your quick and clear answer.And you are right, before this I sailed with a Fin (10 years with the Warp Fin). So I have experience with the power and the filling up of the sleeve, a matter of not falling anyway. Furthermore, I have no intention of sailing competitions, but I do want to invest in speed and stability.
ReplyI am thinking of buying a new sail for foiling. I am quite big guy: 87 kg, 177 cm and started foiling last year. My foil equipment:- NP GLIDE WIND HP with a front wing 1700 ( i also have a smaller front wing - 1300 i use for stronger winds) - it is a basic free ride foil, very similar to starboard supercruiser, - Tabou Air ride (the most basic free ride foil-only board from Tabou)I am able to stay like 5 mins in the air (mostly Close/Beam reach) without much problems, no gybes. My basic sail for foiling is Duotone E pace 2020 6.2 sqm. I have tried a few times to foil with S-PACE 7.8 but it simply got too physical after 30 mins especially my plan is to foil in a lighter wind (9-13 kn with gusts hunting ) and when reaching like 15kn i switch to a regular fin windsurfing with S-Pace.Looking at possible choices there is a f-pace-cam and f-pace (let's forget about foil warp for a moment) would any of these promise some new, never-had-before experiences? Would i be able to let's say take f-pace-cam 4.9 and use it like i would use E pace 2020 6.2 ?
ReplyHi Jakub,Welcome to the thread.Well actually first you need to get clear about your goals of your future foiling "career".Your goal is having a super stable sail which allows you to go really fast (when combined with a race oriented foil) - get the F_Pace Cam.Your goal is super early and effortless flying - get the F_Pace.Concerning sail size vs. wind range vs. foil size please have a look further up on this page under WIND RANGE VS. SAIL- AND FOIL SIZEPlease let me know in case you need any further assistance.
ReplyHeyQuestion regarding my foil goals is pretty important - to be honest i still do not know what are my plans... for sure i wanna start gybing and have fun. These would suggest to go with F-pace instead of F-pace-cam, given a foil I currently own ( at least till now) is definitely not a race oriented one but simple for free ride.What's really tempting for me is the fact that f-pace-cam works with SDM and f-pace only with RDM, and i do have no single RDM mast/extension....Regarding sail size vs. wind range vs. foil size, i am still pretty confused, a for my case can you somehow compare using 6.3 f-pace-cam to 6.4 f-pace with my setup (my board and foil with 1300 or 1700 front wing) ?Looking at diagrams i see that p-pace-cam 6.3 would be the best in 19-26 kn, given foil-size (can i assume it is a size of the front wing) is between 600-800, am i right ? What would be if i use 6.3 f-pace-cam in much lighter wind ( let's say 10-11 kn) but with much bigger foil (like these two i have: 1300 and 1700)? Will it work? Can it be used for free-ride foiling? thx in advance
ReplyHi Jakub,I would not recon to base your buying decision around the mast you own.Cause reading about your setup and (current foil) sailing level I'd suggest going for the F_Pace. The F_Pace Cam requires a smaller race-oriented foil and thus more wind than the F_Pace (which should be partnered with bigger freeride foils).Yes as stated in the "marketing" text the F_Pace is "maybe the easiest to use foil cam sail". But nevertheless it's still a performance-oriented foil cam sail which requires a certain level plus a race-oriented foil.
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ReplyThank you very much Duotone for producing this sail.A lot of power at the bottom (6.3).builds up speed quickly and super stable.I was pleasantly surprised by the speed.And yet the plug and play rigging.in combination with the 160 vts platinum boom very solid.Very different from the S-pace.RemarkOnly it is a 2+1 sleef inducer and it has 1 clew hole.
ReplyHi Moritz,Thanks a lot for the great feedback - happy to hear that you like your new "toy".Re remarks:- you are right during the development we have switched to 1 clew eyelet- there are 2 sleeve inducer - one @ batten #2 and one @ batten #3 (counted from the top) - you can even see it in the picture you have posted :-)
ReplyWhat board/foil did you use with the 6,3 and what windspeed? Thanks
ReplyI am sailing the Patrik foil ride 145 with a SAB foil 95-800/1000.Yesterday 30km with wind from 14 to 25 knots.I like 14 to 20, above that I think it is overpowered but still doable.
ReplyOk thanks for the info, my board is also 145l. So you are using 800 fw and a 1000 frontwing. I have the same options but starboard racefoil with 115 fuselage. And with the f pace cam you wrote you where also happy with the speed, what speed are you sailing with the 6,3 when you tested it?Did you also used s-pace sail on foil?
ReplyHello, the F-pace cam sail looks really intresting for me but also the S-pace is still in the running, difficult choice. I sail a future fly 145 foilboard with a carbon racefoil. I specialised myself in lightwind so between 7 and 12kn wind. I like to have the max speed in lightwind possible so the S-pace 7,3 has a deeper shape because of the 3 cams compared to the F-pace cam. Will the S be faster or is that not that much of a difference because of the 3 cams? Am only 68kg, 1, 86m . 44j old.Now am using a 2cam ga sails cosmic freerace sail for lightwind foiling with 1000 or 800 wing. And a 5,8 e pace for 14kn wind on a 1000 frontwing.Thanks. Bjorn
ReplyHi Bjorn,Since the F_Pace Cam is designed for foil sailing only it is much more suitable and performing on the foil than the S_Pace. Most important differences are the tighter leech, the higher aspect ratio and the profile distribution all being quite different to the S_Pace. So yes I would say you will be faster on the F_Pace Cam. But if speed is your only priority maybe just go for the Warp_Foil :-) Jokes apart honestly I think with your rather light weight you will just love the F_Pace Cam. Cause if rigged with a tight(er) leech the S_Pace is quite a handful (for a light-weight) especially when used on the foil.
ReplyOk cool, i asked the same question on the facebook post from the new sail. So now i have my answer also. I also whas surprised about the long extension. ThanksLove the color combos from all the new sails for 2022.
ReplyHi DuotoneI ordered 3 of these sails including the 7.8.In the spec you give a luff of 502 and advise a 460 mast.Is this correct?So extender to 42?Thank you so much moritz
ReplyHi Moritz,Welcome to the thread.We wanted to avoid the 7.8 needing an additional 490 mast. We also experienced that the SDM in 490 length is simply too stiff for a 7.8 foil performance sail. Therefore, it is correct that the 7.8 requires the SDM460 mast + XT extended to 42cm.
ReplyOk thanks, just checking.Because I normally have an extra 2 cm on the extender to avoid contact
ReplyHi guys,Happy to help.We've also covered that topic on our Power.XT and Uni.XT product pages under TIPS&TRICKS - CAN I REALLY USE THE FULL ADJUSTMENT RANGE OF THE MAST EXTENSION@Bjorn: happy to hear that you like the looks of our new sails. As I always like to say function and features are for your head and optics are for your heart&soul :-) So we are always trying to make all parts of your body happy with our products :-) :-)
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