FOILSAILING IS MORE POPULAR THAN EVER AND IS DEVELOPING RAPIDLY. MEANWHILE, IN ADDITION TO CLASSIC FOILRIDING, FOILSTYLING AS A PLAYFUL VARIATION WITH A CLEAR LEANING TOWARDS FREESTYLE IS CAUSING A LOT OF EXCITEMENT AND UNLIMITED POSSIBILITIES. BOTH “PLAYGROUNDS” HAVE SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS THAT REGULAR FIN SAILS CANNOT MEET.
This is exactly why the completely redesigned F_PACE range consists of two differently designed models, which up to size 5.8 are clearly described as F_PACE STYLE while 6.4 and 7.4 come as F_PACE RIDE. But both designs have one thing in common: they are spiked with innumerable, foil-specific design features that have a decisive influence on performance and result in extraordinary characteristics in their respective spectrum. Only 4 (STYLE) or 5 (RIDE) battens, a super short boom and a reduced luff curve combine to produce a favourably soft and very light foil sail. The high aspect outline with reduced top surface corresponds perfectly with the low water resistance of the hydrofoil and the hardly existing lateral forces. With less movement in the top, the rig remains stable over the board, for maximum control yet very reactive. The foot perfectly closes with the deck and allows for extreme angles against the wind, especially on the F_PACE RIDE with the extended foot batten – yet thanks to the extremely concave outline without any negative influence to the handling! The new, externally added SLEEVE INDUCERS combine the best of both worlds: super fast rigging and the rotation of a no-cam sail combined with the optimized aerodynamics of a cam sail. Together with the tight leech, they allow the F_PACE to start flying even with the slightest breeze. Should it really be necessary to pump, the low sail foil tension immediately builds up propulsion and effective acceleration. Especially on the F_PACE STYLE the extremely short boom, 4 super easy rotating battens and the low weight result in a playful handling that difficult manoeuvres and moves require: a lot of propulsion, minimized swing weight and - if necessary - spontaneous on-off. This makes them also the ideal companion for windier days.
ATTENTION: since the mast geometry and length (= stiffness) depend on the sail design, size and luff curve the sails will NOT work with any masts outside the recommendations!
WHAT'S NEW
VISUAL FACELIFT
TECHNICALLY UNCHANGED
WANNA EXTEND YOUR 2 YEAR WARRANTY BY ANOTHER 3 YEARS?
THIS PRODUCT IS QUALIFIED FOR AN EXTENDED WARRANTY OF 5 YEARS. TO SECURE THE EXTENDED CLAIMS PLEASE REGISTER WITHIN 30 DAYS.
OTHERWISE JUST THE LEGAL WARRANTY PERIOD CAN BE GRANTED!
PLEASE REGISTER HERE
WIND RANGE VS. SAIL- AND FOIL SIZE
YOUR PERFECT BOARD MATCH
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KNOWLEDGE BASE SAILS
BRAND COMPATIBILITY
At DUOTONE we use a Medium Constant Curve for our masts (our bend percentages range between 61-63 bottom and 75-77 top depending on model and length). As this curve sits right in the middle within Constant Curve masts it offers the biggest compatibility of any bend curve. This makes our masts and sails the most compatible on the market.
HERE IS HOW GOOD OTHER BRAND MASTS WORK WITH OUR SAILS AND VICE VERSA:
Challenger Sails, Ezzy, GA (2017 on), Goya, Gun Sails, KA Sails, Loft Sails, Naish Sails, NeilPryde (RDM masts), RRD, S2Maui, Sailloft, Sailworks, Severne (RDM masts, 2014 on)
>> 80-90% (depending on model and size)
Hot Sails, NeilPryde (SDM masts), Point7, Severne (SDM masts, 2014 on), Simmer Style, Chinook
>> 70-80% (depending on model and size)
Avanti, Gaastra (until 2016), Maui Sails, Severne (until 2013), Vandal
>> Not compatible
Most customers change their individual sail and mast sizes according to demand and therefore end up owning a quiver with different brands. When building up your personal sail quiver, you should try to combine sails that have a similar feel and behavior. The one decisive factor defining how similar or different one sail feels/behaves to another is the position of the draft, in both levels, vertical (high><low) and horizontal (forward><back).
Freeride and slalom sails from the different brands nowadays feel quite similar since at least the horizontal draft position is forward oriented on nearly every sail today.
The biggest difference though you find with wave sails.
Basically there are 2 different kind of wave sails:
Draft centered (= balanced pull on both hands) and low (to keep the sail controllable)
These sails are the ideal companion for multi-fin boards. Since the balanced pull on both hands makes them super neutral in your hands they shine especially in real down the line conditions. On the other hand they feel very different to modern freeride and slalom sails (which are very forward pulling). So if you are using such draft back/low wave sails only very occasionally as your high wind flat water sail you might be better off with the second type of wave sails.
Draft forward and up (to still generate enough low end power)
These sails work on both single- and multi-fin boards. With the forward pulling feeling they are more exiting/direct to sail and have a very similar feeling to modern freeride and slalom sails. In addition they are the ideal choice for side-onshore jumping conditions as the higher and forward oriented draft helps/accelerates rotations in the air (especially forward loops).
So when mixing your quiver with different sails/brands you should try to combine sails which have a similar draft position and thus feeling and behavior.
Just follow these guidelines:
You are looking for a direct feeling wave sail especially for jumping. Or you need a smaller sail to complete your freeride or slalom sails. Try to get draft forward/up wave sails. Typical examples are:
Duotone Super_Star / Duotone Duke / NP Zone / NP Combat (until 2018) / NP Atlas / Point7 Salt / Point7 Spy / Severne S1 / Severne Blade
You are looking for a wave sail which is super neutral for down the line riding and very forgiving in nuking gusty conditions. Try to get draft centered/low wave sails. Typical examples are:
Duotone Super_Hero / GA IQ / GA Manic / Goya Fringe / Goya Banzai / NP Combat (2019 on) / Simmer Tricera / Simmer Blacktip / Simmer Icon
Try to avoid combining draft forward/up- with draft centered/low sails in your quiver as these feel and behave extremely different.
THE MAST - THE MOST UNDERESTIMATED PART OF YOUR RIG
The importance of the mast is usually extremely underrated. In fact, the mast is comparable to the transmission of a car. Or in other words, a Ferrari with only one gear is not very fast, only the correct transmission maximizes the potential of the engine into v-max.
When you compress a mast using downhaul tension every mast has a specific bend curve. This bend curve has to match with the luff curve of your sail in order to work in conjunction with the sail. On the other hand if the mast has a different bend curve than the luff curve both parts work against each other. Therefore it is utmost important to buy the right mast for your sail.
To say it loud and clear: a wrong mast will destroy min. 30% of your sails performance or in other words will turn a winner into a shit sail!
The only other thing you can do to kill your sails performance is wrong/insufficient downhaul tension.
In general, at Duotone, we modify our mast curves just very, very moderately, if at all, from one year to the next. There are 2 reasons for this:
1. we try to keep our masts compatible with our sails for as long as possible to avoid forcing customers to always buy a new mast with their new sail.
2. our sail designer Kai is always trying to reduce the "design variables" as much as possible. This way he can constantly improve the sails performance. And since the mast curves have a tremendous impact on the sail, he is not very eager to change the curves.
Even on our high-performance Platinum mast series, the bend curves are only slightly adjusted from year to year. All other mast series generally remain completely unchanged. This means that as long as you are not a Word Cup pro, you can use 10 year old or even older Duotone masts (or from our previous brand) in our sails.
1. MAST STIFFNESS
Your rig is like a bird's wing, it is not a static but a dynamic object. Everything above your boom is under permanent movement to react/adapt to changing wind conditions (wind strength and direction) as well as to water movement.
There is a simple rule across all masts: the longer the mast the stiffer it is, or rather, the stiffer it must be. This is simply because the larger the sail surface becomes, the more support it needs from the mast. In a way the mast is the backbone of your rig.
What happens if a mast is too stiff or too soft for the sail (size)?
1. mast too stiff: the rig becomes super hard to control (especially when powered up) and uncomfortable (exhausting) to sail as the mast doesn't flex sufficiently e.g. when a gust hits your sail.
2. mast too soft: a mast that is too soft reduces the profile in the sail (because it already bends too much when downhauling the sail). When sailing It also bends too much with every gust. Both factors reduce the performance of your sail.
Your body weight also plays a role here. On the same sail a 60 kg lightweight will want to use a slightly softer mast than a 90 kg heavyweight sailor.
2. MAST DIAMETER (RDM VS. SDM)
There are two diameters existing:
1. SDM (Standard Diameter Mast) with 48,5 mm inside diameter at the bottom
2. RDM (Reduced Diameter Mast) with 32-33 mm inside diameter at the bottom
RDM masts make sense only up to lengths of around 430 cm, as they have a rather soft flex behaviour due to their smaller cross section. Therefore, they are primarily suitable for Wave/Freestyle sails with the additional advantage that they are easier to grip during manoeuvres.
On the other hand, larger, mostly performance-oriented sails require stiffer masts with a “more direct“ flex. This characteristic requires a larger mast cross section in order to achieve the required stiffness.
3. CARBON CONTENT >< WEIGHT >< PRICE >< PERFORMANCE
Compared to glass fiber, carbon is
a much stiffer fiber:
Due to this higher stiffness, less material/wall-thickness is requires, which ultimately results in a much lighter mast. The weight of the mast has an significant influence on how light the whole rig feels in your hands. No joke compared to a 50% carbon mast with a 100% carbon mast your rig will feel as if it would be 1 square meter smaller! And this is something everyone from beginner to World Cup pro will immediately feel and appreciate.
a much faster reacting (responsing) fiber:
When a gust hits your rig it twists off to absorb the sudden energy surge (instead of pulling you into a catapult). In order to create forward movement the mast has to reflex back. The faster this happens the faster the rig is ready for the next gust/impact.
a much more expensive fiber:
Unfortunately carbon fiber is 10-20 times more expensive than glass. That means the higher the carbon content, the more expensive the mast.
DESIGN PHYSICS OF MODERN WINDSURF SAILS
Especially in the top and towards the clew weight is key cause due to the leverage-effect you feel every gram a multiple times in your hands. Because of the quite limited amount of materials available though the only way to reduce the sail weight is by reducing the thickness of the materials. The secret is finding the sweet spot of lowest possible weight but without sacrificing durability and longevity/sustainability.
Modern Windsurf sails consist of the following raw materials:
(1) MAST SLEEVE MATERIAL
Rough woven Polyester fabric. The rough structure gives it a maximum abrasion resistance against impact from the outside (e.g. board contact or contact during rigging) as well as from the inside (through the mast).
(2) MONOFILM
Plastic film made out of Polyester available in clear- or colored versions. This hard plastic film has a very low stretch (for maximum performance) and doesn‘t absorb any water (dry weight = wet weight). Attention: monofilm isn't very UV-resistant. Therefore keep your sail out of direct sun light when not sailing. Also monofilm isn't very abrasion resistant.
(3) XPLY LAMINATE
2 thin layers of monofilm and a pattern of threads (out of Polyester or Dyneema) are glued together creating a sandwich laminate. The additional threads are supposed to function as a rip stop in case the film gets punctured (e.g. falling into the sail with your harness hook first). When using the same total thickness as monofilm (= same low stretch, same UV- and puncture-resistance) XPly is 30% heavier due to the additional adhesive (and threads).
(4) DACRON
Before discovering monofilm original Windsurf sails were made entirely out of Dacron. This woven fabric offers a very good abrasion resistance but is very stretchy plus elongates (means it grows with each use). Therefore nowadays mainly used for reinforcement patches to protect the monofilm and XPly panels in the high abrasion areas of your sail (foot, clew, top and outside of batten pockets).
(5) INSIGNIA
Dacron material with a self-adhesive side. Therefore it doesn‘t require seams when put on top of the film plus prevents water from getting in-between the film and the abrasion patches (= lower wet weight).
Wanna know more details or looking for DUOTONE sail spare parts - here you go
BATTENS
Made out of glass- or carbon fiber either as solid version with smaller diameter (= stronger) or tube version with larger diameter (= stiffer). For a better understanding the mast is like the backbone of your sail whereas the battens act like the ribs of your sail keeping the profile in place. Same as the mast also the battens have individual profiles (thinner tip, thicker tail) matching the profile of the sail.
Simple rule: the more battens the more stable (= faster + bigger wind range) the sail becomes. But also the heavier the sail becomes as battens account for approx. 40% of the sails total weight. Therefore handling/wave-oriented sails usually come with 4-5 battens whereas performance oriented sails usually come with 6-7 battens.
As a second guideline smaller sail sizes require fewer battens than larger sizes.
CAMBERS
Usually there is a certain gap between the batten tip and the mast. This is necessary so that the batten can shift from one side of the mast to the other when sailing back and forth. A camber can be seen as a kind of connection between the batten tip and the mast filling out this gap.
This leads to much better aerodynamics as the cam enables a smooth transition between the thick mast into the thin sail body. In addition since the cam is braced against the mast the batten stabilises the sails profile much more effectively (sail becomes more stable = faster).
The downside is that the rotation from one side to the other becomes much harder. Plus the cambers need a certain space which requires a wider mast sleeve. This makes (water)starting much harder as the wider mast sleeve absorbs more water. Therefore cambers are mainly used on performance Freeride or high-performance Slalom sails.
FOOT ROACH
A sail with a lot of foot roach reduces the gap between the sail and the board (close the gap) which makes it more efficient/performance-oriented.
On the other hand a high cut foot with less foot roach improves the handling especially for all kind of ducking moves.
PROFILE DEPTH
A deeper sail profile gives you more power and performance in general.
A flatter profile on the other hand improves the handling as the distance of the flat profile is much shorter when shifting from one side to the other.
BOOM- AND LUFF LENGTH
Together with the sail size all dimensions increase. Means in general the larger the sail the longer the boom- and luff lengths become.
Simple rule: a heavier sailor needs to take a larger sail size to get planning in the same wind compared to a lightweight.
Rough indication for the biggest sail size: to get going in the same wind a 10 kg heavier guy requires a 1 sqm larger sail.
Max. sail size vs. body weight:
The larger the sail, the heavier and the more “sluggish” the rig becomes. In addition, larger sails require stiffer masts to keep the surface "in shape". A heavy rider provides more "counter-pressure" to the sail area and mast stiffness than a lightweight. That's why the sail tends to pull you out of balance, gets difficult to control during maneuvers and becomes inefficient to pump when it is too large for your body weight.
In relation to your body weight, there is a maximum sail size that should not be exceeded.
Here are some guidelines:
>> 9.0+: min. body weight 95kg
>> 8.0-8.3: min. body weight 80kg
>> 7.0-7.3: min. body weight 70kg
As a general rule rather use a slightly too small than a too big sail.
First you should define the biggest and smallest sail size you will need to cover all wind speeds you wanna sail in. This mainly depends on your body weight (see above).
Let’s take an “average” 75 kg sailor and let’s assume this guy wants to sail in “any kind” of wind.
- The biggest sail size this guy would need is something like a 7.3. With a capable 100-120 litre Freeride board this size would get him planning in approx. 8-10 knots.
- His smallest size would then be a 3.7. On a 70-80 litre (Free)Wave board our guy should be fine up to approx. 40-45 knots.
Second thing is to define the sizes in-between. Important to know: the wind pressure (which you feel in your hands) raises in square in relation to the wind speed. Therefore the smaller the sail size the smaller the size increments need to become. For large sails, the gap can be up to 1.5 sqm, while for very small sails it can go down to 0.3 sqm.
Taking all of this into account a typical quiver for our 75 kg guy could look as following:
7.3 - 6.0 - 5.3 - 4.7 - 4.2 - 3.7
Taking the “10 kg = 1 sqm” rule (see previous point) in consideration a typical quiver for an 85 kg guy could then be:
8.3 - 7.0 - 6.0 - 5-0 - 4.5 - 4.0
You have bought all parts from the same brand but if you rig according to the specs printed on the sail it still feels somehow ackward.
Unfortunately every product has tolerances in production. And the bigger a product becomes the bigger the tolerances become. Therefore tolerances on a smartphone are hardly visible whereas tolerances on Windsurf equipment are non-deniable.
- The tolerances on the mast length are approx. +-5 mm.
- The tolerances on mast extensions and booms are approx. +-3 mm.
Furthermore, there is unfortunately still no standard among brands on how to measure the length of booms and extensions.
- On a sail with all its panels the tolerances over the whole luff length can add up to another +-5-10 mm.
In addition, even with monofilm sails the luff stretches in the first 3 times you use the sail due to the massive downhaul tension.
Adding up all these tolerances you start realising why the absolute numbers printed on your sail (especially the luff length) can only be an indication to adjust your mast extension- and boom lengths.
To achieve the correct downhaul tension please make sure to only rely on the VTS (Visual Trim System) markers in the top of every DUOTONE sail.
Always keep in mind there are exactly 2 things either of them potentially killing at least 30% of your sails performance:
1. The wrong mast (see first point under MAST BASICS on every mast page)
2. Wrong/insufficient downhaul tension
There are 2 things which will destroy up to 60% of your sails' performance:
1. A wrong mast with a bend-curve which doesn't match with the luff curve of your sail
2. A wrong timmed sail
For how to rig and fine-tune your sail please see our YouTube channel.
Always rig according to the rigging instructions - see here.
After use in salt water, rinse or spray down with fresh water. At the very least at the end of a vacation or trip.
When possible only roll up the sail once it has dried. Never store a rolled up sail for any extended periods of time unless it is dry.
To dry, release the tension from the sail; if possible do not set out to dry in direct sunlight, and do not dry it by letting it flutter in the wind.
Always roll the sail from top or bottom, keeping all battens under full tension in their sleeves!
Use only recommended mast components for your sail in order to attain optimum performance.
Do not wash your sail with harsh detergents or chemicals. Water and a mild soap are fine.
Repair tears and holes in monofilm sails immediately to prevent further tearing. If proper repair is impossible (and this includes using the DUOTONE monofilm repair kit), at least seal the tear with normal tape or a sticker.
The sails durability is directly related to
a. the frequency of use
b. sail care and
c. UV-radiation (especially in monofilm sails)
In places with high UV-radiation, store the sail in the shade, otherwise de-rig it.
DUOTONE DESIGN PHILOSOPHIES - THINK DIFFERENT
With the information overkill nowadays no one has the time to read manuals anymore. Therefore we try hard to design our products as intuitive as possilbe to get you onto the water faster than with any other product. No wonder DUOTONE is called the feature world champ.
Here are some examples:
VTS 2.0
The first "guess-free" visual trimming guide to clearly show the correct downhaul tension. Version 2.0 comes with a window in the protector to mark your individual trim once you have found your ideal setting.
HTS 2.0
By marking the draft position on the sail you immediately know where to position your harness lines.
INDIVIDUAL BOOM LENGTH INDICATION
The length of the boom changes with the angle to the mast. Therefore if you move your boom up or down you need to change the length of your boom. As the only brand we take that in consideration by printing 3 different boom lengths onto the clew and boom cutout so that you always know the correct length according to your body/boom height.
SET&GO VARIO-TOP
Instead of leaving you with the time-consuming try and error procedure to find the correct setting we have installed markings on the webbing immediately showing the correct setting.
iROCKET 2.0
Every batten in a sail requires a different tension. That's why as the only brand we calibrate every single batten at the factory to the correct individual tension using a torque wrench. Since the screws are locked with screw glue you never have to touch them. Just rest asured to always have prefect batten tensions.
Our motto is clear: light is right but only if it doesn't go to costs of durability.
Our hardware products (booms, masts and extensions) are proven to be the lightest in the industry.
With our sails though we are not the lightest on the market (with the exception of the Super Hero M.Plus). The major reason for this is that we are using (much) thicker XPly laminates than some other brands.
The factors of puncture resistance, UV weathering resistance and stretch evidently depend ONLY on the thickness of the film used.
Puncture resistance and stretch have a linear relation to the thickness of the film. Means twice the thickness results in twice the strength against punctures with half the stretch.
Even more critical is UV resistance since here the relation to the thickness is overproportional. Means half the thickness reduces the UV-longevity by nearly 70%!
Some brands use XPly laminates which are 2/3rd thinner than ours in the upper sail area. Yes in the top you have less puncture issues and you can even get away with the increased strech. Unfortunately though the UV-exposure is the same all over the entire sail.
That's one of the reasons why the majority of Windsurf centres around the globe trust in DUOTONE products.
Eliminating stretch and loss of tension. If it’s good enough for safety belts, it’s good enough for windsurfers! We are the only manufacturer to use only polyester webbing for the (vario) top and the tack roller. This advantage of this compared to conventional polypropylene is the negligible amount of stretch. As a result even brand new sails will retain full luff tension and will not need subsequent trimming.
On modern wave sails you want to have a certain elasticity. The easiest way to „inject“ elasticity into a sail is by using Dacron for the luff panel.
Dacron has 2 disadvantages though:
Dacron is a rather soft woven fabric. Therefore it has a lot of give but similar to your t-shirt it wears out over time. Means your sail is permanently getting fuller in the luff panel. Especially under permanent downhaul tension (e.g. in surf centres) Dacron ages very fast.
The Dacron material improves the elasticity but due to the soft Dacron material it’s kind of a spongy softness. On the water such sails often have the tendency to become unbalanced on the wave and less precise during jumping.
Therefore Kai designs his wave sails with non-stretchy XPly luff panels. Instead he tries to implement elasticity into the sail through other design features. Starting with 2022 all no-cam sails feature a mast sleeve made out of one single piece (ONE PIECE SLEEVE) instead of the common two piece construction. Besides saving weight this eliminates the hard spot at the leading edge caused by the overlapping + reinforcement and the seam to connect the two pieces. This way the whole sleeve becomes an integral part of the mast flex/twist. We call this PRECISE ELASTICITY.
WE DO CARE
Sustainability is the most important and pressing challenge of todays mankind to secure a livable mother earth for future generations to come!
Over the last 50 years Windsurfing has developed into a super high tech sport. But let's face it despite what others might tell you with the exception of aluminium booms and extensions Windsurfing products are a "mixture of petrol-based plastic trash". And most times up to 100% of this plastic trash are non-recycled (means "freshly produced") plastics.
At least as of today there are no eco-friendly substitutes existing offering the minimum requirements necessary to design modern Windsurfing products. Or why do you think no one wants to sail with wooden booms, aluminium masts or stretchy sails made of woven fabrics anymore?
There is only one sustainable way out of this dilemma:
MAKING LONGER LASTING PRODUCTS (LONGEVITY = SUSTAINABILITY)
A high performance product that lasts longer and best case can even be put into additional use on the second hand market is the best and only way to conserve the resources of our earth.
Of course light components have a massive impact on the performance and handling of your rig. That's why light weight is always on our briefing list when designing and engineering new products. And DUOTONE products are among or in many cases are the lightest on the market.
But durability and longevity were and will ALWAYS be on top of our priority list. Our industry leading warranty extensions bear witness to this philosophy:
- 2 year unconditional warranty on almost every hardware product (masts, booms and extensions+bases).
- 5 year warranty on 80% of our sails.
On sails we cannot emphasize enough that especially reducing the thickness of the monofilm and the XPly laminate has a radical influence on the longevity/sustainability. Reducing the film thickness by 50% reduces the UV-stability by 70%. Just to shortterm impress magazine testers or customers some brands use up to 70% thinner laminates/films than we do. This is not our understanding of sustainability.
DOING MORE
However, since we are fully aware of the importance of sustainability, we cannot simply stop here.
>> Only we have stopped using any plastic for packaging our sails. This saves approx. 5 sqm of plastic film and foam per sail.
>> Only our aluminium products (booms and extensions+bases) are manufactured in a CO2 neutral production facility.
>> Only our aluminium products (booms and extensions+bases) are produced in Germany using 100% European raw materials in order to keep shipping distances (to our manufacture and then to our central warehouse) at a minimum.
>> Only our sail bags are made out of 100% recycled plastic.
>> Only we compensate all carbon emissions caused by our sails during manufacture and transport by supporting a hydropower carbon offset project in Sri Lanka, the country where our sails are produced.
WE DO LISTEN - BECOME PART OF THE DUOTONE DEVELOPMENT
DO YOU HAVE ANY INPUT OR IDEAS ON HOW TO IMPROVE OUR PRODUCTS?
SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS WITH US!
We strive to create products that are superior in performance and function to anything else on the market. Therefore, we are not just interested in the opinion and experience of professional riders, but listen to ALL windsurfers out there. Because we know we can learn from everyone, we want to collect the opinions of windsurfers worldwide.
This project runs throughout the whole year. Every year on January 15th, the best ideas will be rewarded and might actually be implemented into future products.
So, you have got an idea? Contact us >HERE< and take your chance to make a difference. (Please use "R&D input for DTW" as a subject line)
REWARDS
1st - One sail (free of choice)
2nd - One Silver Boom (free of choice)
3rd - One Power.XT 2.0 (free of choice)
Any comments or questions? Here you’ll find first hand R&D / rider Information.
The more info you provide, the more specific the advice/help will be. Please let us know:
Your skill level
Your body weight and size
Mast(s) you plan on using with the sail
Board(s) you are using
Conditions/spots you are sailing at
Please note: To help as many people as possible follow the thread, the forum language is English only.
28 comment(s)
Hi, Have you got plans to make a 7.4 m2 F-Pace ride in SLS white like the superhero 2023 graphics ? I could be tempted. On the 6.4 F-Pace ride i have, the lowest triangle shaped panel below the bottom boom is cut so that it's clew side point ends short of the batten. I appreciate that you are trying to keep the foot of the sail high to aid manoeuvres as with the idol design but you would get a tiny bit more sail area by taking the panel out to the end of the batten similar to the Idol design . I think if it was like the idol there would be less likelihood of catching my nose on the end of the lowest batten when ducking to back winded. This could be also solved by more sailing skill. An SLS design could be useful for the biggest sails in the F-Pace. I'm 75 kg with wetsuit etc so does 7.4 m2 only get me flying in one knot less wind than 6.4 m2 ? Sometimes tempting to try though when wind hovers around 8-10 knots when forecast said 13 knots.
ReplyHi Zytigon,Unfortunately the Windsurf foil market is too small to justify the development of a F_Pace SLS since swapping materials with different stretch characteristics require a complete new development. At least if you wanna achieve the advantages of the high-tech materials. But the biggest difference you can do to get flying earlier is to support the planing with active pumping. No joke active planing will get you flying 2-3 knots earlier. Unfortunately this requires the right technique and is quite exhausting - at least in the beginning until you have sorted out the right technique.
ReplyThanks Raoul, I've just bought a 2023 7.4 F-Pace to see if it gives me a little more power on marginal 12-14 mph conditions to keep flying. Sometimes in marginal winds i pump to get up but still feels teetering on verge of touch down. Trouble with even bigger sail is that when the wind picks up properly i'll all the sooner have to change to smaller. I was out yesterday with the 6.4 m2 in 10 dwindling to 4 mph for an hour waiting for the wind spike forecast and it was quite funny when the wind suddenly came in about 15 to 18 for an 90 minutes. It was lucky i didn't rig bigger. The F-Pace is well balanced for gybing compared to 8 m2 NCX which feels a bit cumbersome up on the foil.I sometimes joke that upwind 360s and piledrivers etc is the way to summon the wind but it could also be the international distress signal for not enough wind.
ReplyHiGot a New f pace 6.4 with gold 430 Mast and Power xt.My dealer at USD says it is ok with the long extension. World IT be better with a 460 and short extension ? I am a little bit heavy 90 kg.my Board is Stingray 130 LTD. Surfing in flat water at moderat wind.I did not find a 460 gold only Platinum ?
ReplyHi Elgreco111 111 (crazy alias :-) Welcome to the thread.Your dealer is fully right the 6.4 works ok with the Gold RDM430 - or in other words this is our alternative recommendation. The Platinum RDM460 though is clearly the best recommendation for this sail. Especially since you are more on the heavy side (of life) - like myself :-) I have personally tested both of these mast options in the 6.4 and could feel a noticeable difference as with the RDM460 the sail is more stable. Please let me know in case you require any further assistance.
ReplyHi,I bought a 2021 F Pace 5.2 last year, which I now tried 2 times during this winter. Both times I was not able to get it working properly. The sleeve inducers are stopping regulary the sail rotation, so that I need to use hands or feet to move the sail around. I have 2 bigger F Pace Cam sails where the Cams work much better, really great sails, small soft pull and rotation is done!!! For the 5.2. F Pace Style I used a North Sails RDM 430 Gold approx 5-6 years old and a Power XT (puit to the additional 8cm). More downhaul does not seem to help and the sail in then also already out of the indicators. More or less outhaul also does not make things better. I also tried the batten tension but this also did not really improve behavior so I went back to factory setting. I have no further idea other then assuming, that the sail is not ok or it does not work with the mast. So far all sails worked great with my North Sails RDM 430 Gold. Any advice? Besides the rotation the sail is really good , was today in conditions between 16-30kn (with a Free 1000 on a Stingray 125) and it was very good as long as you do not go into a jibe, then it really annoys massively, becasue you often need to kick the sail to get it turning (puilling with back hand very often does not work al all :-( )CheersDirk
ReplyHey DirkWelcome to the thread.Sounds like you tried already few different settings.Can you upload some pictures from the rigged sail, sometimes it helps to give you a better support.ThanksMarco
ReplyHi Marco, I bought a new 2024 Duotone F Pace and 460 platinum mast during winter for use in the lower windspeed summer days. I have used it 7 sessions so far so maybe 21 hours. Mostly it is good, easy to rig / derig due to little luff curve, seems to take off in less wind than my next biggest foiling sail which is a 5.6 Severne Freek, it can do light wind freestyle like ducking to back winded nearly as good as a Freek but when up foiling it does need a strong jerk after the gybe to get the batten below the mast to go round after a foil gybe. I think it is less of a problem when windspeed is nearly too much. I tried more / less downhaul and more/ less outhaul. I've tried several Duotone sails and this is the first one i found anything to complain about. Well i guess with camber sails you need to jerk them a bit to turn the cambers, like the 2015 warp i have, so is this just the downside of trying to do cambered stuff ? Do the pros not notice because they are so used to tugging on the boom to make the cambers rotate ? Maybe an F- pace without sleeve inducers could be an improvement ? I was looking to get a 6.3 Freek but they didn't make them this year so i tried F Pace. The Freek is perfect, rotation effortless. Maybe a 6.3 m2 idol would be the thing. I've got a 5.2 m2 idol which is ideal for foiling too but most of the time here needs a 5.6 m2 minimum for take off when foiling.
ReplyHey zytigonThanks for the feedback.We didn’t had any rotation issue with the lowest batten on 6.4.I always use the recommended outhaul tension which worked perfect for me.Are you using the duotone Platinium RDM 460?There will be no sleeve inducer anymore on the new ones.ThanksMarco
ReplyThanks for reply Marco. Yes i've got 460 rdm platinum mast. Thanks to Duotone for the great stuff they make letting windsurfers live the dream. How much of the sail should touch the boom when well powered ?
ReplyHi Marco, today i rigged the 6.4 F pace with Duotone silver 150-200 boom. I had top of boom clamp at the 176 marking on luff sleeve and set the boom at 178 and pulled clew right out to cleat and i think the rotation of batten below boom was much improved. The Met Office forecast said 12 to 13 mph average maybe up to 15 mph max and i was up on the foil 60 % of time, nearly well powered a bit of that time and at those better powered times the sail was not touching the boom at all, in fact it was 2 or 3 cm away from the boom. At those better powered times i gybed up on the foil and the batten went round ok without yanking on the boom. Maybe i get a more certain opinion if the issue is fixed next time i am out really well powered. Really seems crazy to set off on a windsurfing trip with a 12 mph average forecast especially when some of the other forecast were saying 6 mph. Had a good 3 hour session with the F Pace then the wind dropped and i tried a 8 m2 NCX and got another 15 minutes foiling after a lull of 40 minutes.
ReplyHi Marco, I have had a couple of well powered sessions on 6.4 F Pace and am now happy with it, the batten below boom rotates good enough with more outhaul tension. I put the top of boom clamp just below 176 cm on the mast sleeve and set the boom length to 178 with clew pulled out to cleat. It could have been user error as the luff sleeve actually says 176 + or - 1 so to get 177 the boom would need to be 178 anyway. When up on foil well powered the sail is about 2 or 3 cm from the Duotone silver 150-200 boom. I had previously been using the 6.4 F Pace in hardly enough wind so thought that having the sail with less outhaul would give more shape and power, then the sail did touch the boom.
ReplyHey zytigonThanks for the feedback. I guess everybody prefers different settings, sometimes it also depends if you ride a powerful foil. I personally prefer to have a deep profile. So the sail feels more balanced. The sail will always have a on - off feeling with a tide outhaul.ThanksMarco
ReplyHi Marco, sorry that i never came back to this discussion,I forgot. But I had in parallel a discussion with my shop and the sail got replaced by you, thanks a lot for this customer support. The new one is working. In the meantime, I also got a new 430 RDM Platinum mast, which is very nice with the sail. So no more problems. Very nice sail.
ReplyHello! I've got an F_Pace 6.4 2022 and plan to buy a Mast for it. On the sail is written Best 460+26, Alt. 430+16. You write on this page at the specs: Luff 464. So which Mast size should I buy? 430 works?Thank in advance.Attached an image. https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
ReplyHi teamPerhaps pulling a little more on the previous thread.Got my stingray 1500 fanatic wing and fpace 6.4. And 460 RDM duotone mast. All great and happy when there is around 10 plus knots.I’m looking to get going in less wind.I was out earlier this week and spotted guys with GA 7.8 sails with 1500 foils and getting going and flying fin in the lulls. I had to work hard on a wave to get going and found difficult to keep going through the lulls. I saw you comments about the fpace cam and thinking what I should do. I have a 2015 warp 7.7 but think it would be too heavy and the centre of effort too far back to be comfortable.So would the fpace 7.4 be my best bet for comparison with those guys on the 7.8 sails on free ride boardsThanks for your thoughtNick
ReplyHey nick.Thanks for the feedback.Are those GA sails with cams or without cams.You can try to put less downhaul on your sail to have more drive,If you wanna improve your performance in the low wind.ThanksMarco
ReplyHey Marco Thanks for your thoughts.Yeah the GAs were cosmic 2 cam sail and hybrid sailsHad the down haul as low tensioned as I dared and outhaul loose enough for the sail to almost touch the leeward of a 2016 140-190 platinum wave boom then tighten about 1-2 cm. . Only issue is the sail feels back handed when I leave it super loose on outhaul.Being 95 kgs probably doesn’t help 🤣👍Should I go for a bigger sail would you think a fpace 7.4 or 7.0 fpace cam or even warp 7.5 foil? Or alternatively just pump harder to get going earlier but don’t think the pumping is the differentiator hereWould love to know your thoughts pleasePs. I’m low skilled on foil but getting nice runs without too much difficulty. Not gybing yet.Normal windsurfing ex top level many years ago and put on about 15 kgs and 30 years behind a desk since then 😉CheersPs the foil mast was 2 markings forward of optimal for windsurf and zero shim. If I go 3 forward I end up porpoising a little too much
ReplyHey nickDon’t worry you are not the only one in the 95kg class. My favorite combo in less then 10 knots is the stingray 115 combined with the f pace cam 7.8.With the 7.8 I am able to fly in super low wind, the profile and depth in the sail will help you to get on the foil even without good pumping skills.The sail also generates enough drive to bring you trough the wind holes.I guess the 7.8 f pace cam should be your number one choice to fly in less then 10 knots and to make some wingers or other windsurf foilers jealous because you will be the only one in the air.ThanksMarco
ReplyHey MarcoThanks for your thoughts and information.I’ll run with that and look to sort one out. At least I know the low end will be just what I want.Could I ask would the 6.4 fpace still be the right step down or would I likely go straight to my 5.2 fpace instead thinking about the control with cambered sails.Also could you let me know your thoughts rigging this 7.8 on a 2015 460 platinum race mast that I use with my warps. I’m guessing will be fine still? Just checking comparability as I know little tweaks are done on the race kit masts.?CheersNick
ReplyHi, I am looking for advice as to the best rig choice for upping my foiling game. I have been windsurfing for decades and doing a little foiling for the last three, making use of old Tushingham freeride sails. I am 75kg, 180cm. I shall be investing in a duotone mast as well as the sail. I am on a JP Freefoil 130 with a Slingshot hover glide infinity 76 wing of 1534 cm2. I am looking to be able to foil in light winds; ideally down to 10 knots or even less. Ease of getting flying takes precedence over maximum speed. My attempts to pump onto the foil (using big, loose-leech “fin” sails) have been mixed so far! I had thought that a cam sail would help to provide maximum drive but reading the discussion I get the impression that this is not necessarily the case. Certainly the ease of rigging and the reduced weight of a no-cam sail appeals greatly. A couple of questions:1) Why does the “wind range vs sail and foil size” charts that you provide indicate that a 7.0m F-pace CAM is needed in wind speeds down to 10 knots, while for the F-pace, 5.8m is enough?2) I cannot find any detailed information on your “sleeve inducers” and wonder if you can point me to any diagrams or videos. I just struggle a bit with the “Best of both worlds” claims 🙂3) Assuming that a no cam F-pace will work best for me, and on the basis that my pumping abilities are limited, should I go with the 5.8 or 6.4?Any advice or other suggestions are much appreciated. Simon
ReplyHey Simon!Welcome.I would say the take off between a non cam and a cam sail is similar.The advantage what you have on a foil cam sail that you have more drive and specially if the wind drops it’s easier to stay on the foil because of the depth in the front.I would suggest to go for the 7.0 f pace cam,Let me know if you have any further questions.ThanksMarco
ReplyHi Marco,Many thanks for getting back to me - now I am more confused - but probably back to how I thought the sails compared before picking up on the enthusiasm for the F-pace elsewhere in this discussion.I remain a little puzzled by the "wind range vs. sail and foil size" charts for the two sail ranges but assume that this includes the increased ease of pumping with the F-pace versus the F-pace CAM.Reading between the lines I am getting the picture that the sleeve inducers help to enhance the profile when there is a bit of pressure, but cannot perform miracles in the absence of any wind.Anyhow, the "proof of the sail is in the flying" so I will have to make the decision and get on with it!Thanks again,Simon
ReplyHey SimonIf you have a good average pump technique, then I would say that you will come with your 5.8 f pace as early on the foil as with the 7.0 f pace cam.You need to generate the forward drive while pumping withe f pace on the other side with the f pace cam it’s a bit easier because of the deep profile in the sail which gives you already the forward drive.The softness of the f pace gives you a big advantage to get on the foil. The f pace cam feels stiffer while pumping but has the profile in the sail.So I would say that both sails are pretty much equal.I hope I could help you.ThanksMarco
ReplyHi, is there a 2024 model on the cards?Regards Graham
ReplyHi Graham,Yes of course the F_Pace remains in the range.But it's gonna be a carry over model means unchanged.
ReplyHi Raoul,Thanks for the information. 2021-2024 haven't seen any technical changes. I wonder why it's yet another carry over? Obviously isn't as popular as windsurfing. Their sails are updates at least every 2 years.
ReplyHi Graham,Actually we have not received any suggestions on how/where to improve the current design.
ReplyI have the F-pace 6.4 and am having tuning problems. I cannot get the bottom 2 cams to seat on the mast correctly. It seemed like more downhaul was going to do the trick, but it didn't. Any tuning guidance?
ReplyHi Shawn,Do you refer to the the 2019 model? Cause all other F_Pace sails don’t feature cams.
ReplyI realize I mean the sleeve inducers. They get stuck on one side of the mast and stay there.
ReplyHi Shawn,The sleeve inducers not swapping to the other side sounds very strange. Have you left the sail rigged up under full tension for an extended period?
ReplyNope. Looking at the tuning video he mentions this as a case of not enough outhaul tension, but I think I had a lot (probably too much) outhaul trying to correct it. I probably had too much downhaul also, trying to fix this.
ReplyHi Shawn,Ok don’t over-downhaul the sail, simply go by the VTS dot. On the outhaul pull with thumb + index finger only until you start feeling a resistance. This is the so called neutral tension. From this point onwards pull the outhaul eyelet 2-3cm further outwards. This way you have a pretty good base setting.
ReplyI am completely missing something here. When I first insert my mast the battens push past the mast. As I apply downhaul the top batten pulls into the correct spot. I can only get the middle one by applying too much downhaul, and I can never get the bottom batten to not push past the mast. My mast is an Ezzy XT rdm 460 60%. Your site says Ezzy should be pretty good, and the specs match your range for top and bottom flex.
ReplyHi Shawn,Ah now I see where you're coming from.Please note that in contrary to Ezzy on our sails the battens rotated around the mast.
ReplyThat is my problem, the battens do not rotate around the mast. The bottom two battens stay on one side of the mast no matter how I rig it. I am extremely frustrated with this sail. It is unuseable. Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I do not know what. I have rigged it per the instructions in your video and printed on the sail and still the battens protrude in front of the mast and stay there on one side.
ReplyHi Shawn,Well without seeing your sail it’s extremely difficult to verify what’s the problem. My best guess would be that the Ezzy mast might not work with the F_Pace.I would recon to check with your dealer and rig the sail with a Duotone Gold or Platinum mast to see whether this solves the rotation issue.
ReplyHi again.I’m now getting into my foiling and the bug has bitten me.really enjoying the feel of the f pace 6.4 and stingray 130 with 3.0 foils set from 1500 to 1000 although mostly on the 1250.The f pace is easy to rig and super forward pulling. Guess that goes with the position of the mast base being close to the front strap. The sail is very powerful and perhaps I use a little too little outhaul to compensate. Not trying gibes yet but enjoying the journey just going along on days that are not fin days. So well done to you all for the great equipmentI’m thinking about higher or gustier wind days now. I would like a smaller sail and considering either a 5.2 or 4.6 as the change down and would like some advice. I understand about the tight roach concept and see the 5.2 is on a 430 and the 4.6 is on a 370 so much softer. I think I may have answered the question my self as I would like to go 7meter slalom sailing in around 20 plus knots or wave sailing.would would be your thoughts on best approach please as step down to the awesome 6.4Finally is the sail going to be updated this year please? Also I have aero RDM ready for the small sail but find that the hero wave sail is not feeling right for the foiling experience for me as pull is further back and causes me to have an unstable flightThanksNick
ReplyHi Nicholas,Amazing how foiling is opening up a complete „new world“ isn’t it?But only with a dedicated foil setup it really shows its potential. Ok first tip for your F_Pace 6.4: try to use rather too much than too little outhaul.As the next step down you are right on a foil you can have a bigger gap between the sizes. But I wouldn’t recon going for the 4.6 though. I think the 5.2 would be the logical step down.We are not certain if we will update the F_Pace since so far we have not had any proto outperforming the current sail.Finally you are fully right with its further back draft the Super Hero isn’t ideal for a „non dolphin flight“ :-) As I said foiling is great… with dedicated foil equipment. Please let me know in case you need any further assistance.
ReplyThanks for you thoughts Raoul.I fully agree using the right kit for foiling make a massive difference and I’m really enjoying it.Ill go with you advice and go order a 5.2. F pace to compliment the 6.4.I’ll let you know how it goes on the water when I’ve had chance to try itnKeep up the great workCheersNick
ReplyHi DuoTeam - I was hoping you could explain why a forward (and upward) draft is so important in a foil sail. I understand, of course, why a stable draft is so important, but why forward versus centered? Thanks.
ReplyHeySorry for my late reply and thanks for your question.We have two types of foiling products in our range:Warp foil ( pure racing)F pace ( freeride)Warp foil is full racing oriented. We are looking for top speed and control. That’s why we have here a centered draft position.Priority in our f pace range is to have a great early planing performance. That’s why we have here the draft slightly more forward and up to get as early as possible on the foil. When you are once on the foil then the draft is moving a bit more to the center.I hope I could answer your question.Let me know if you have any further questionsThanksMarco
ReplyJust adding a comment: these are fantastic sails. I now have 3.4, 4.0, 4.6 and 5.2. It took me a while to adjust to the draft forward feeling, but now that I have I feel like the potential of the sail has been completely unlocked. So to anyone on the fence, give it a few sessions. It is really a different feeling and took adjustment on my part. Finally, PLEASE make a 3.0!
ReplyHi Bullroarer (btw what a great alias :-) Thank you so much for the great feedback.You just confirm our experience that a dedicated foil sail (same as a dedicated foil board) lift your foiling experience onto the next level.Have fun flying.
ReplyRaul & all, I am very serious about needing a sail smaller than 3.4. I regularly foil in 25 gust 35 conditions and the 3.4 just gets to be too much.
ReplyHi Bullroarer,Thanks for your enquiry. Unfortunately demand for such a sail is so extremely low that it doesn't justify the development costs and doesn't meet the MOQ's of our factory. But maybe you find a bunch of other guys who would be in need for such a size.
ReplyHello Duotone Team - I’m trying to understand why you feel so strongly that a foil sail needs the lift forward and up. Of course I understand why you want it stable, but forward isn’t so clear. Can you explain?
ReplyHi, here I was getting psyched to buy an F_Pace (7.4?) to improve my foil fun in the weak summer breeze on the local lake. I currently use my e_Pace 7.3. My buzz was severely killed when I saw that the F_Pace is only recommending RDM masts. I have a Platinum 460 SDM and Gold 430 SDM so would need to buy a new mast. I would also need a new mast extension as I only have two SDM Power XT. So suddenly I'm looking at having to pay about double the money (which in stupid brexitland is high enough). Seriously guys? I know the mast question has been raised by others but we need to know. Does the SDM fit, even if "too stiff" because at the moment, The F_pace is off the buying list.
ReplyHi Laurent,Welcome to the thread.I agree with your E_Pace and Platinum/Gold SDM masts you are really a "hardship case" here.But still I can't stop emphasising the it is THE most important fact to have the right mast for your sail. The sail is like the backbone of your rigg. And swopping your backbone with someone with a different posture/weight you wouldn't ever consider doing. Fortunately medically that's still impossible - as opposed to putting a wrong mast into your sail. Long story short before putting one of your SDM masts into the F_Pace please keep just keep on using your E_Pace. Sorry for the straight reply but rather than always replying "no worries it's gonna work wonderful" our philosophy is to have happy longterm customers by giving honest and straight recommendations.
ReplyThanks, I'll keep using the E_pace for now, with special attention paid to tuning for foil, although there are questions in the importance of ability to inflate, especially for someone like me who hates pumping :)
ReplyHi Laurent,That is definitely the right decision. And thanks for bringing up the pumping topic. This is not my favorite „discipline“ either but I can only encourage everyone out there to start (learning) to pump. Especially for foiling it makes an unbelievable difference of at least 4 knots! We did a test once with one guy on the F_Pace 7.4 not pumping and the other one on the 5.8 pumping. Guess who was flying first by miles…And btw pumping is also easier the smaller the sail and softer the mast (= RDM).
ReplyI am 6', 210 lbs, and 60 yrs old. I have had a Dufour board for 40 years and decided to try foiling. I got a Slingshot Levitator 150 board with a FWIND foil. I also got a F_Pace 6.4 sail. The recommended mast is 460 rdm. It doesn't seem like I need to go up to the platinum mast, but there aren't many 460 rdm masts (and some people say in that length I should get a SDM). So, should I go with a 430 rdm mast with extension, 460 rdm mast, or 460 sdm mast? Does the SDM mast even fit my sail?Thanks
ReplyHi Shawn,Thanks for reaching out.As stated above in the tech specs we do not recommend the use of SDM masts in the F_Pace.Foil sails in general do not like too stiff mast since the drag on the foil so so drastically reduced compared to fin sailing. And due to the greater cross section SDM masts are always stiffer than RDM's.For the 6.4 the best mast would indeed be the Platinum RDM460. But going for a Gold RDM430 is also a very good choice. Please let me know in case you need any further assistance.
ReplyHi Raoul,Mast compatibility question.Considering getting a smaller f pace to compliment the 2022 6.4 I have already to go with my stingray 130 2022. I’m 90kg, and 188 tall plus beginner inter foiling level. Thinking 5.2 or 4.6 for anything more than a sea breeze. Conditions I sail is open sea that is pretty choppy so control is more important than speed to me. Oh and I’m an old man now at mid 50’s so ease of use is important too.Here’s the thing. Recognise that the platinum and aero masts are tweaked a little each year to compliment the latest designs in wave sails. I also see the latest platinums are of the same composition as the Aeros I have now.The mast I’m considering using with the 5.2 is a 2013 aero rdm. I have 430, 400 and 370 for my 2013 hero’s.How would the performance be with a 2013 aero mast paired with a 2023 f pace 5.2 please?Appreciate your thoughts Raoul.Cheers
ReplyHow will the 2021 F-pace 5.8 do on a 100% 400cm+CX?
ReplyHi mbsz,Well that’s a tricky one.Yes the Carbon Xtender makes the mast a bit stiffer. But you still won’t achieve the same stiffness as with the 430. So I would say yes it’s possible but it’s not ideal.
ReplyRaoul,Thanks. Got a 430 gold and rigged this thing up and I had similar difficulties as Jakub below. It was very difficult for me to see the "flop" borderline in normal light because the half battens interfere with the line of the crease. In my garage this was a bit easier as the reflection of the linear led lights on the ceiling become distorted in the loose floppy part of the leech. I am pretty confident that I am getting the tension right, bit a couple of things give me pause. First, is that have my extension set to 27.5 cm and am still able to tension the downhaul past the max mark (sail indicates 30cm max extension). Second, the little window for the Velcro downhaul indicator seems to be in the wrong place: the mast ends about 5 cm below the bottom of the window. If I try to make the end of the mast visible on the window, the leech gets as floppy as a plastic bag! Third the bottom two battens protrude past the mast slightly. Is all this to be expected? Thanks,Maciek
ReplyHi Maciek,Well like mentioned below since foil sails in general have a pretty tight leech it is much harder to spot the borderline.As for the specs printed on the sail I can only emphasise to use these only as a rough indication to set up your hardware components (please see further up on this page under SAIL BASICS - WHY NOT BLINDLY RIG ACCORDING TO THE SPECS PRINTED ON THE SAIL?). As for the window in the protector unfortunately sometimes the production gets them wrong. As trivial as it sounds we are constantly fighting here to have the slot in the right position on all sails.Finally concerning the outhaul trim please have a look at the VTS Tail tension recommendation further up on this page under TECH SPECS. For the F_Pace we recommend MIN +2 >< MAX +4. In case you don't have a boom featuring the VTS Tail fitting here is what this translates to:1. Use 2 fingers ONLY to pull until you start feeling a resistance. This is the so called neutral/zero tension which is your starting point. Fix the rope in the cleat. 2. Now pull another 8cm of rope length to achieve the min outhaul tension.In general on the F_Pace it's better to have a bit too much outhaul rather than to use too little outhaul.Do not tension the outhaul according to where the battens sit on the mast.Please let me know in case you need any further assistance.
ReplyHeyI have just bought F pace ride 6.4 and duotone RDM 460 mast (platinum). Beside that i also have Power xt RDM which i set to 4 cm but still wondering if a sail is rigged properly.It is my fist pure foil sail and but I see 2 issues with it:1. I have set boom to 180 cm (initially i had 175.5 as my al360 can be extended by 2.5 cm) but i still see that the sail is "too loose" (in a part next to mast, just under the boom) - have a look at a short movie to see it a link here 2. I still suffer to set downhaul to max or min. The more downhaul i put the more loose leach i get - this can observed by a growing "wrinkle" from leech to a mast forming let's say half circle. In all of my duotone sails (e pace/s pace) the farthest (from a leech) point of this "wrinkle" is exactly on a level where min/max indicators are placed. In f pace 6.4 if i put a plenty of downhaul i can nicely see "a wrinkle" but it is farthest point is way beyond MAX indicator. If i release a downhaul tension (i do it click by click with powerxt) i stop seeing a "top of a winkle" and just see 2 tiny "folds" next to "these stiff pieces" which are surrounding min/max indicators (sorry i have no idea how these are called). It is really hard to capture it on a picture, maybe i can record some video tomorrow to visualize it.What am i doing wrong? Can it be that it is because both sail and mast are just brand new (opened from the box) and after a few riggings things would stop working automatically
ReplyHi Jakub,Well obviously the looser the leech the easier it is to spot the borderline between the loose and tight area of the leech.Foil sails in general require a tighter leech (to match the reduced drag you have when flying on the foil). Therefore on these sails it’s harder to spot the borderline. But I have a trick for you I always use on my sails: I always rig my sails to the MAX dot first (easier to spot). And since we have added the Power.XT click info on the sails (= clicks necessary to go from MIN to MAX downhaul tension or vice versa) it’s pretty damn self explanatory to achieve the MIN tension.Hope this helps.
ReplyThx a lot for the answer. I have already tried "your trick" but to see a nice half-oval wrinkle (as i see in my e pace) i need to put a lot of downhaul tension so i am far beyond max indicator. Now, reducing downhaul a click by click i simply stop seeing loose leach "being" on min/max indicators level - I can only see a loose leach above AND under min/max indicator. Is it clear what i am trying to express ? Beside that have you had a chance to see a video i recorded (this forum does not allow to put video so i just uploaded it to google drive and just put link you can click on a last 2 words of point 1 in my post above) to see how "vertical (being white), close to boom head a part of a sail" - see picture https://uploads.disquscdn.c... is so loose. Is it expected ?
ReplyHi Jakub,1. Downhaul:"... i stop seeing a "top of a winkle" and just see 2 tiny "folds" next to "these stiff pieces" which are surrounding min/max indicators..."To me it seams you got it all right.2. Outhaul:Please proceed as following:- Pull with 2 fingers only until you start feeling a resistance (= neutral tension) and fix the rope in the cleat- Min tension: pull the eyelet 1cm further (= 4cm rope length due to the 4:1 transition)- Max tension: pull the eyelet up to 3cm (= 12cm rope length)As for the straight wrinkle I assume you are using a Duotone mast right?
ReplyHey @raouljoa:disqus In one of posts below you explained how to correctly outhaul f pace:OuthaulAs for the outhaul please proceed as following:- pull with 2 fingers only until you start feeling a resistance (= neutral tension) and fix the rope in the cleat- Min tension: pull the eyelet 1cm further (= 4cm rope length due to the 4:1 transition)- Max tension: pull the eyelet up to 3cm (= 12cm rope length)What do you mean by 4:1 transition? Is it somehow related to this new VTS 2.0 system ?I am using Al360 boom ( i simply put the rope end, not rope loop through eyelet) and given i found neutral position and fixed the rope in the cleat, to set up min tension shall i simple release the rope from the cleat and pull it for extra 1 cm or extra 4 cm? I found some old video of NS https://youtu.be/gXdy68Wf5H... but i think on a video you are pulling more than 1 cm? How shall it work ?
ReplyHeyAfter some extra digging i think i understand what you mean by "pull the eyelet 1cm further" - is it about pulling the rope further (let's say by 4 cm) to bring the eyelet closer to the end of the boom by 1 cm. Am i right ?
ReplyHi Jakub,You got it fully right. To achieve 1cm of eyelet movement you need to pull the rope by 4cm (due to the 2:1 rope transmission).
ReplyHi,I am using the 2019 F-type sail in size 5.8 with Fanatic flow 1000 foil in 10-14 knots conditions. I noticed that the 2019 sail in size 5.8 is completely different from the recent F-pace sail. The new one is much higher in aspect ratio and no more cams, but sleeve inducers. If I would like to replace the 2019 sail to the recent F-pace, which size will have the same low end power as the 2019 sail?Is there more info available of how the sleeve inducers look and what they exactly do?Kind regards,Joeri
ReplyHi Joeri,Thanks for bringing up these interesting topics.1. F_Type vs. F_Pace:We designed the F_Type right at the beginning when foil sailing started. Since that time there has been a tremendous development on foil sails - hence the slightly changed name. The F_Type featured a pretty central draft position whereas modern foil sails are very draft forward. This makes the sail a lot more neutral when flying on the foil. On the other hand a centered draft gives you a little bit more „umpf“ to get going - at least for passive planing.But please note in foiling it’s a tremendous difference between passive getting going or actively pumping. In our experience we are talking about 4! knots difference here.Long story short if you are aiming for the same passive low end power than your F_Type 5.8 you should go for the F_Pace 6.42. Sleeve Inducers:These are reinforcements on the mast sleeve which improve the aerodynamics without affecting rigging and (water) starting.
ReplyHi Raoul,1. Clear.2. This remains quite vague. Does the sleeve inducer improve the sail profile in an unloaded state like a camber inducer?Or/and does it improve the profile in a semi-loaded state?Or/and does it stabilize the profile in an overpowered state?A picture would be helpfull to understand its purpose.Best regards,Joeri
ReplyHi Joeri,It improves the profile in a semi and overpowered state.
ReplyHi RaoulI’m just staring out with the wind foiling. Stingray 130, 1500,1250 and now aero free1000 together with f pace 6.4. I’m 93kg, ex windsurf racer and sailing only for my own enjoyment now.I’ve had help from Craig forum and Jordy videos regarding board setup which just works. Had amazing sessions since resetting.Only using the f pace 6.4 in sea breezes upto say 16 knot gusts. Finding the sail a little big and foiling with the backhand pretty open to let the power off the sail.My question is regarding sail set up. Using aero 2013 mast! Platinum 140 to 190 boom and shox rdm extension. Ext set to 34 and down hauled to within 1 cm of max at 34. Boom at 38 ext and with about 3 to 4 cm to get the outhaul almost to the boomOk so I’m seeing that on the sail the min and max are right up by the top batten and not far off the leach. The sails in the videos and on this site show the min and max setting much further inboard toward the mast and lower by the duo tone sail logo. Could you let me know why such a big change in settings and now which should I be using too please ?ThanksNick
ReplyHi Nick,Welcome to the thread.Following to your questions:1. Wind range F_Pace 6.4With a 1.200 to 1.500 front wing our experience covers a wind range between 7 to 17 knots (see above under WIND RANGE VS. SAIL- AND FOIL SIZE). Please note:A. To get going in 7 knots you need to pumpB. To sail in 17 knots you need to „open the door“2. Hardware/components setupA. MastAs mentioned in the post below the best mast for the 6.4 is the RDM460. The RDM430 is a good alternative but the difference is still noticeable. The RDM460 improves the stability and is more effective to pump as the 430 is on the soft side, especially since you’re on the heavier side of things (same as myself :-) B. Shox XTThe Shox system is a great asset for fin sailing (as it smoothens out the chop). For foil usage though it wouldn’t be my first choice as once on the foil the chop „is gone“. 3. RiggingA. DownhaulSince there is a massive lead time necessary between doing the photo shooting and releasing the products to the market most of the time we need to use photo shoot „fake products“. Means these are prototypes which are different to the production sails. So your observations are correct, means on the final production sail the VTS dots are placed much closer together plus closer to the leech. So if you rig the downhaul according to the VTS dots on your sail you have the perfect trim.B. OuthaulAs for the outhaul please proceed as following:- pull with 2 fingers only until you start feeling a resistance (= neutral tension) and fix the rope in the cleat- Min tension: pull the eyelet 1cm further (= 4cm rope length due to the 4:1 transition)- Max tension: pull the eyelet up to 3cm (= 12cm rope length)Please let me know in case you need any further assistance.
ReplyHi RaoulThanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. All very helpful.Pleased to see the massive sail condition range of the 6.4. Really look like I need to seriously consider in investing in a 460 rdm platinum mast. Sounds like it will make the difference with my weight which will be helpful. Won’t be getting lighter any time soon! Understand about the min and max settings for downhaul. Guess the clock doesn’t stop for proto development and photoshoots ;))Appreciate the outhaul setting advice too. First sail for years I don’t have an adjustable outhaul on so making a choice for the session on just one setting is interesting especially for a new and very different set up sail compared to warps or hero’s with looser leaches and roach lines.I still need more time on the water and will follow your advice across the board of suggestion.Many thanksNick
ReplyHi Nick,Happy to help as this is the (main) purpose of these product threads.And if it makes you feel better I went down the same „path“ coming from loose leech fin racing sails (Warp_Fin) and 90+kg towards tight leech „fun“ foil sailing (F_Pace + Stingray 130 LTD).But I can tell you that much you won’t regret it…
ReplyThanks Raoul, Looking forward to my new journey. Can’t wait to get back out there again!
ReplyHi Raoul,I am sailing on lakes with gusty & unstable wind. I am using at the moment a Stingray 125, Flow Foil (1000 + 1500 Frontwings), Super Session 4.4 (for high wind) up to E-Type 7.8 (for low wind around 10kn (with gusts up to 18). Weight 83kg . Main Sail is my E-Type 6.6 (where it is ok , if the gusts go up to max. 25). At the moment I am still not satisfied with the low wind performance There are guys wing foiling, which are already in the air much earlier than me (at approx 8kn) and can stay in the air with almost no wind. I am wondeering if a F Pace 7.4 or 6.4 would give me more low wind performance in comparison to my E-type (2018) 6.6. / 7.8. trimmed for low wind. What do you think? Can I pump the F Pace much better than an E Type? Does the F Pace produce much power to stayx in the air? Furthermore I am wondering, if it is worth to invest into the 460 RDM (at the moment you have only the expensive platinum masts with that length..) My longest RDM mast is a 430 Gold. 460 I have only as an SDM Gold. And last but not least, I am wondering if the foil sails need a special boom, would I be fine with the 160-220 Hybrid Curve EPX or do I need a wider boom, if I trim the 7.4. for very light wind? Looking forward to your answers...
ReplyHi Mab,Oh shit somehow your post has slipped through - sorry for that!First of all welcome to the thread and thanks for providing all the details about your setup and expectations. Now to your questions:1. Flying as soon as possibleOk getting onto the foil as soon as possible is all about pumping - no matter if you are using a wing or windsurf rig.Pumping a 7.8 is much more exhausting than a 6.4. Long story short your E_Pace 7.8 has more passive planing/flying power than the F_Pace 6.4.But if you are up for pumping it’s a different story since the F_Pace 6.4 is simply easier and less exhausting to pump.Compared to the F_Pace 7.4 though I would rather stay with your E_Pace 7.8 since both sails are exhausting to pump.2. Mast for F_Pace 6.4 and 7.4Both sails are designed for RDM masts only. The 7.4 is ok on the RDM430 + Carbon.Xtender but considerably better on the RDM460.On the 6.4 the difference isn’t as big but still noticeable. 3. Boom for the F_PaceYour EPX.Carbon 160 boom is perfectly fine for the 6.4. On the 7.4 it is a bit on the narrow side though. Please let me know in case you need any further assistance. And sorry again for the delayed reply.
ReplyHi,I am looking for a quiver of sails for foiling.I am not a lover of cams, I currently use my super session sails when foiling because I like the ease of this type of sail.F Pace states that it has sleeve inducers? Are these mini cams? Can you remove them?I can't find any reviews or information on the interactive graphic.Thanks for the helpRegards,Graham
ReplyHi Graham,Welcome on the F_Pace thread.How you outlined yourself I can tell you the F_Pace will be exactly the sail you are looking for.As for the sleeve inducers these are plastic reinforcements on both sides of the mast sleeve. These have zero effect on the rigging and handling yet improve the aerodynamics.
ReplyHey!I'm looking for a new biggest sail I should use for foiling. Unluckily I can't rent or test the f_pace models close to me. So I think I just buy one and then test it by time. But I can't decide whether I should buy a f_pace 5.8 or 6.4. My setup is: 75 kg/starboard foil x 125/supercruiser (1700 cm2). I'm new to foiling and just start to improve my pumping skills. But it gets better... :)Which sail would you recommend for my quiver? When I get it right, you would prefer the 2022 6.4 but for the 5.8 the 2021 would be ok!?And what sailsize would make sense for the next smaller size? 6.4 - 5.2? 5.8 - 4.6?Cheers Robin
ReplyHi Robin,Welcome to the thread and thanks for brining up these interesting questions.Also thanks for proving the details about your setup - makes a qualified reply a lot easier.- Biggest sail sizeWith 75kg you're towards the lighter range (for a man:-). With a 1.700 wing size you have a quite big wing especially in combination with your body weight - which is great especially in the beginning when learning to foil.So I tend to recon the 5.8 here for you.Yes the 6.4 might get you going even 1 knot earlier (passive planing - see chart above under WIND RANGE VS. SAIL- AND FOIL SIZE). But honestly with your body weight and the wing size I think it would just be an overkill. For comparison I weight over 90kg and with a 1.500 wing the 6.4 is plenty enough. Once you are a bit more advanced and are able to pump there is hardly any difference between the 6.4 and the 5.8. Dani (product manager at Fanatic) for example is over 85kg and with a 1.500 wing and the 5.8 he is planing as early as guys on their Warp_Foil 8.9. But careful he is very advanced - so just to get you a better idea.- 2021 or 2022 modelOn the 5.8 it's easy as this sail is technically unchanged. On the 6.4 it's easy as well since the 2022 model is massive improvement over the 2021.- Next smaller sizeSince foil sails have such a massive wind range (note you can just "open the door" when getting overpowered) you can easily go in 1 sqm steps. So as the next size down to the 5.8 I would go for the 4.6. Please let me know in case anythings unclear or you need any further assistance.
ReplyThx for your quick an detailled answer!Indeed I got one more question: If I tend to the 5.8 and try to work on my pumping skills- do you think there is a big difference if I use a non-duotone 40 % RDM mast (constant curve) in comparison to a 70 % duotone RDM mast (silver line)?
ReplyHi Robin,Again a very interesting question so thanks again.Well actually you need to split the answer in 2:- Foil sails in general are less sensitive to a bend curve which needs to match 100% with the sail (even though some brands might heavily disagree here as this might "influence" their sales numbers :-) So using a non-Duotone mast on the F_Pace should work as long as the curve is not completely off - see above under SAIL MAST COMPATIBILITY)- 40% "carbon" mastI know the mast is the most bulky and "unappreciated" component as it's always in the way. But remember the mast is like the backbone of your body. Would you wanna have your backbone replaced with one feeling twice as heavy and spongy - guess not. But this is exactly what happens if you refuse to invest into a proper/real carbon mast with MINIMUM 70% carbon. You have such high-class equipment and wanna destroy it with a cheap mast - pleeeeeease don't do that! I promise you compared to a 40% mast a 70/80% mast will make your rig feel half as heavy. And especially for foiling a light feeling rig is everything.
ReplyIn the tech specs of the 4.6 it says luff is 404 and the only mast to be used is 370, why cant you use a 400 mast?
ReplyHi Jeroen,Thanks for bringing this up.As usual the most important factor is to have the right STIFFNESS. Also foil sails require softer masts than fin sails. In other words the RDM400 might have the right length for the 4.6 but it’s simply too stiff for this sail.
ReplyHi Raoul, many thanks for your advice from last year. So I managed to foil, but not as often as I wished as in general did not get sufficient wind (most of the time at 8-10 knots max), and wanted your advice on which sail to buy. As a recap: I'm about 70kg, just started to windsurf again last year, use a Fanatic Stingray Ltd 130lt, have two F Pace sails (5.2 and 6.4) and two masts: one RDM 430 (black series) and a RDM 460 (100% carbon). I'm using a Phantom Irix X 800cm2 foil. I've therefore just purchased a larger 1000cm2 front wing foil, and now I'm in the process of buying a larger sail as well. As I have a F Pace 6.4 already, I was thinking of buying ideally the F Pace Cam 7.8; and if it does not work with my gear, then the F Pace 7.4. Keep in mind that my larger mast is s 460 RDM; and my only boom goes up to 200cm. Could i use this gear with the 7.8? Any suggestion what is the limitation? Also Is there realistically a big difference between the two other that just the size? (my goal is to 'fly' as many days as possible so need to be able to take off with low wind - and so far i'm not very good at pumping, so need extra wind/sail/foil power!) Many thanks, Antonio
ReplyHi Antonio,Good to see you back.Thanks for the recap of your equipment.Actually I think what you need is an even larger wing. I use the F_Pace 6.4 + Stingray 130 with a 1.500 wing and I'm flying in 8 knots. Ok in comparison I'm a "bit" heavier than you with 90kg. But I think with your weight you should go for a 1.200 wing to start flying in marginal conditions.So in short I wouldn't recon going for the F_Pace 7.4 or the F_Pace Cam 7.8 - bad for our business though :-) But if you really wanna invest into a new sail then I would start looking into the new F_Pace 6.4. Cause we have worked super hard on this particular size for this year to bring it to the same level as the last years "magical" 5.8.Also the F_Pace Cam does not work with RDM masts. But with how you describe yourself I wouldn't recon the F_Pace Cam for you anyhow - yet.
ReplyMany thanks Raoul for your super detailed feedback. The problem is that Phantom's foil goes up to 1,000cm2, so that's the max foil size. Which means that I either lose more weight ! or get a bigger sail (and also learn how to pump properly!). I already have last year's 6.4 F Pace. Shouldn't I then buy the F_Pace 7.4? I cannot imagine that it makes sense to have two 6.4 F_Pace that are just a year apart..
ReplyHi Antonio,Ok now I understand your "dilemma" being limited through the max. wing size Phantom offers. Too bad as (too) small wing sizes you can only compensate through either a high foil skill level (incl. pumping) and/or bigger sail sizes.And yes in this case it maybe makes most sense to go for the F_Pace 7.4 - even tough with your rather light weight this is a really big sail then.
ReplyHey. After reading a comment under S-pace and Foiling - did I understand correctly that the F-pace is for foiling Only and not recommended for Fin sailing? And question 2 - is the 2022 6,4 F-pace significantly better then last year’s model? I also struggle to foil with my 6,4 and ended up using my S-pace 7,8 instead. Not to happy with the F-pace at all. Regards Jasi
ReplyHi Jasi,The F_Pace works for foiling only. But since you own last years model I assume you have experienced this already. Last year the best size was clearly the 5.8. For this year we have worked very hard to bring the 6.4 to the same level. So yes the new 6.4 is a major improvement to last year. Important to know all sizes are deigned to work on RDM masts only whereas last years 6.4 and 7.4 have been ok on the SDM (yet still much better on the RDM).
Replygood morning I have to arm the epace 6.6 with a shaft 460 sdm loft plus 4 cm (I cannot buy the 430) which extension I can use (length 15.30.45 cm) and brand to make the rig a minimum more soft. thanks carmelo
ReplyHi Carmelo,This is the F-Pace thread but anyhow here is your answer: unfortunately the softness/stiffness of your rig depends only on your body weight and the mast you use. Means you cannot make your E_Pace 6.6 to feel softer by just replacing your extension.
ReplyMy new E Pace 6.2 2021 has only two rollers in the pulley. Can I break the blue piece in the middle of the pulley to get 3 rollers.Thx
ReplyHi Pp,As you can see in the Tech Feature list above and on the 2021 E_Pace webpage we have upgraded our tack roller. All cam sails come with a 3-roller design while all nocam sails now feature a 2-roller design. Unfortunately the tack roller can’t be changed. We have explained the reasons and advantages of this design on the Uni.XT webpage (https://www.duotonesports.c... under TIPS & TRICKS - USING ALL 3 ROLLERS OF YOUR SAILS TACK ROLLER VS. QUICK LOOP USING ONLY THE 2 OUTSIDE ROLLERS.
Replygood morning I have to arm the epace 6.6 with a shaft 460 sdm loft plus 4 cm (I cannot buy the 430) which extension I can use (length 15.30.45 cm) and brand to make the rig a minimum more soft. thanks carmelo
ReplyI broke the blue piece, which isn't easy. I have 3 power xt 2.0 mast extensions but I don't use them for foiling. I prefer the uni xt for foiling. But threaded with 3 rollers. If the lower part of the mast breaks you can lose the complete rig in the wordt case scenario. You should have the possibility to remove the blue piece, please let the customer decide how to thread. I love north/duotone sails (have plenty of them). That's the first time I have to make a remark! Sorry for the inconvenience. Thx! Luc (Belgium)
ReplyHi Luc,One of our major aims is to get everyone onto the water as fast as possible. And since threading the rope through all the rollers is such a time "killer" (plus people not doing it regularly often end up with crossing lines) we had decided to solve this once for all by eliminating threading on sails which have low downhaul tension. But even more important is to listen to your customers. And since we have had some complains about the new tack roller design we have decided to go back to a "traditional" design for 2023.
ReplyHi Raoul, Thanks! for the feedback , really appreciated. I totally understand the new tack roller design which in my opinion was a very good idea. It was not an issue for me if the blue piece clould easily be removed for those who wanted to thread with 3 rollers. Thx! again Grtz! Luc
ReplyHi RaolJust looking at changes to F Pace ride 6.4 2022. I have the 2021 F Pace 6,4 and noticed that luff is now 464 from 484. Q : Why such a difference? I under stand the 4 battens above the boom and removal of 3/4 batten. I am happy with my F Pace although I need about 11 to 12 knots to fly. Still learning to pump efficiently. I use a fanatic stingray 140 with a 1250 flow foil. Thanks in advance Kev
ReplyHey KevYou're completely right, I weigh 95 kg and had with the old F_PACE always problems to get planing and that's why we moved the Batten positions. The sail has a much better loading now because of the bigger Center Panel. Pumping is way more efficient now and as you could see the sail became a bit more compact.so in summary you now have a better-Pumping performance-you will be able to fly in less then 10 Knots-the sail feels more stableIf you need any further informations let me knowMarco Lang
ReplyThanks for reply Marco. On the plus side the 2021 has a good top end. I'll use my E Type 7.3 for lower winds for the moment. cheers Kev
ReplyHi Kev,One more comment on the different aspect ratio (less high aspect) of the 6.4 compared to the other sizes: our aim was to have the 6.4 working on the RDM460 as well as on the 430. This is simply due to the fact that most people don't own a RDM460 mast.
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